Are Convicted Criminals And Terrorists Barred? Yes!
By krushtonwhitehouse Posted in Immigration | White House — Comments (85) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
-Promoted from the diaries by Jeff
Wanted to take a moment to clarify what is in the bill regarding the Z program and convicted criminals and terrorists. The contention that they are not barred from the Z program has been making the rounds today.
The range of crimes that disqualify applicants from the Z program extends into the thousands and includes any felony (murder), any three misdemeanors (theft, although felony theft would be covered in the prior category), any aggravated felony (rape), any serious criminal offense (assault), most crimes involving moral turpitude (fraud), and any violation of a law relating to a controlled substance. These bars are not waivable by anyone -- period. You can view the bill language on this provision on pages 282 to 284.
Terrorists are not eligible for the legalization program. Period. And this bar is not waivable by anyone. Period. Again, this is spelled out on pages 282 and 284 of the bill, without ambiguity or room for debate. The bill also contains a whole host of new tools to fight criminal, dangerous, and terrorist aliens.
Thanks,
Kerrie Rushton
White House Office of Strategic Initiatives
So if we were to get a group of people big enough and important enough we can rise above the law? This is the lesson being taught. The implications are dangerous.
Please refund my taxes for the past 10-20 years or so. I paid the government my money in exchange for creating law and enforcing the law and it isn't happening. I want my money back.
Will someone please pull that sign off my back that says "Kick Me, I'm an American." Thanks.
To win the war on terror, we first have to win the war against spineless liberal appeasement at home.
You weren't dishonest.
You should have just not paid your taxes and renounced your citizenship. Then you would be eligible for amnesty.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
I know you were being sarcastic, but still: Congress presumes that anyone who wants to renounce US citizenship is engaging in willful tax avoidance. So they recently put on a ten-year waiting period during which you're liable for the full tax load.
Imagine adding that to the amnesty legislation: anyone desiring citizenship must pay an imputed tax assessment for the preceding ten years.
Guess not, huh?
Black, I won't renounce citizenship but rather disappear and come back as Juan Valdez or Sergio Garcia Trevino.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do to your country The Unknown Politician
Make them prove you actually are a citizen. It should at least buy you time.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
all good points.
Don't hold your breath. They have ignored every response on every blog here that brings up enforcement and amnesty and glossed over the rest.
I'm glad they try to engage via blogs and we don't mean to shoot at the messenger. But lets get real, my thimble full of intelligence is totally insulted.
At least be truthful with the public and tell us all the above felonies will be ignored and give us good reasons behind it.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do to your country. The Unknown Politician
Here are a few border and interior enforcement stats that I thought you might be interested in:
In FY 2006, 981,066 Mexicans were intercepted at the border and turned back. Mexicans caught at the border are generally returned the same day.
We’ve ended the long-held practice of “catch & release” for non-Mexicans at the Southern border. As opposed to being told to report for a court date and being released into society, all non-Mexicans apprehended are now detained until they are processed out of the country. It now takes 19 days to process the removal of non-Mexicans apprehended at the border – this is down from a high of 89 days.
Operation Community Shield is ICE’s (Immigration & Customs Enforcement) nationwide law enforcement initiative targeting violent criminal street gangs. The program started in 2/05 and since then ICE agents have arrested 4,978 gang members representing over 350 different gangs. 2,557 of these gang members have been removed from the U.S.
23,679 criminal aliens have been removed so far this fiscal year through the Criminal Alien Program.
Workplace violators now face criminal prosecutions: We’ve replaced the old system of administrative hearings and fines with a much tougher combination of criminal prosecutions and asset forfeitures – a much more aggressive approach toward cracking down on employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. Arrests for criminal violations brought in worksite enforcement actions have increased from 49 in FY 2000 to a record 716 in FY 2006 – a nearly 15-fold increase.
Kerrie Rushton
Office of Strategic Initiatives
The White House
How about numbers for the following?
"Any alien convicted of a felony -- including felony misuse of a fraudulent Social Security Number, felony identity theft, felony tax evasion, a second re-entry after previous removal and ignoring a deportation order -- is ineligible.
Kerrie Rushton
Office of Strategic Initiatives
The White House"
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. The Unknown Politician
I too share the rampant skepticism of this amnesty bill held by many of my co-conservatives . Please tell me how the administration can hope to enforce, on any effective level, to the point of conviction, the "workplace violators" you mentioned?
I live in Orange County Ca with about 36 million others. There are just 3 ICE agents in this county currently. With that ratio of agents to citizens in a place as heavily impacted by illegal immigration now, what reasonable expectation can we possibly have that this new idealistic plan will have any teeth?
I agree with several of the other posters here: this is a snow job and we will not be taken for fools.
Soldier's Mom - Golfer's Wife - Home alone a lot
A slip of the fingers on the keyboard - That OC population should be 3.6 million, not the 36 mentioned above. Of course it feels like 36 mill on the 405 freeway on the way home from work.
My bad -
Soldier's Mom - Golfer's Wife - Home alone a lot
The fly in the ointment here is that even though they have no doubt COMMITTED the felonies you list here (fake socials, tax evasion, etc.), it doesn't count against them unless they have been CONVICTED, which, as we all know is almost never for these non-violent crimes that you mention.
These (unconvicted) felons will get to stay under this bill. PERIOD.
The Executive Branch refuses to do their job of prosecuting law breakers. And because they have not done their job, very few of these people have convictions. And therefore they qualify for permanent temporary Z-visas even though they have committed numerous felonies. In my book that is amnesty.
I really resent having to share the voting franchise with people who by all rights should be convicted felons.
The government failed to do its job of enforcing the laws we already have on the books and so CREATED the problem we have today. And now they tell us the only way to fix the self-induced "crisis" is if we pretend like we never had any of the laws we never enforced; give all these people legal status because now there are too many of them to enforce the laws against them; and make new laws to prevent this from happening again that they won't enforce such that we will have to do it all over again in 20 years.
Any alien convicted of a felony -- including felony misuse of a fraudulent Social Security Number, felony identity theft, felony tax evasion, a second re-entry after previous removal and ignoring a deportation order -- is ineligible.
Kerrie Rushton
Office of Strategic Initiatives
The White House
Seeing as either taxes were evaded or identities were manufactured ?
Its mutually exclusive. The only conclusion is there either will be no Z visas or there will be no enforcement.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The magic word here is "CONVICTED". The sad truth is these non-violent crimes are not prosecuted. So even though we know these people have committed felonies, they get to stay.
P.S. We need to prosecute the employers who knowingly hire these illegals. If we would stop employment of illegals, they would go back home.
The bill's backers know that it's deliberately giving Z visas to millions of felons (Social Security fraud), so they worked very hard to prevent discovering the felonies the illegals committed.
If there was a serious background check (which is not allowed by this bill), we would quickly find the fraudulent social security numbers in the illegal's employment paper trail, and have proof that he committed one or more felonies.
Kerrie,
Are there numbers available for the past few years of how many are convicted of these crimes?
What specific efforts will be put into place to increase enforcement of apprehending and convicting more of those that commit these crimes?
My concern is no matter how tough this amnesty bill is, the lack of execution and enforcement will make this bill moot.
Thanks.
I mean no ill will towards you. I am sure you and your colleagues in communications are really earning your money lately.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do to your country The Unknown Politician
Just how is the criminal record going to be checked in under 24 hours ? Especially for people who most likely are using false identities and stolen sosec numbers ?
Thanks again
______________________________
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
They get the visa. Boom ineligibility goes out the window.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Four of the five components of the background check are usually complete within 24 hours. As noted in some of the later posts, two checks generate immediate responses (the DHS Interagency Border Inspection System and the DHS Immigration Records Check). The other two are guaranteed in 24 hours (theDHS Biometric “IDENT” Check and the FBI biometric check).
The fifth component, the FBI name check, will continue past the 24 hours if they are not completed within that time frame. (66% of FBI name checks are done within 48 hours.)
Probationary status is terminated for anyone whose ongoing background checks turns up negative information. The fact that any may have initially been granted probationary status does not entitle them to any additional judicial process in deportation or removal proceedings. Applicants who are given probationary cards will use them to register at their place of employment, and we will know precisely where they are. If they later fail their background check, this will make it easy to locate and deport them.
One cannot get their Z visa without having satisfactorily passed all components of the check.
When talking about the volume of inquiries, remember that law enforcement has experience in developing systems that can handle a large volume of background inquiries. For example, the FBI’s National Crime Information Center, which police officers use during routine traffic stops to determine whether a driver is wanted for another crime, receives more than six million hits a day.
Kerrie Rushton
Office of Strategic Initiatives
The White House
why does it take weeks or months to perform background checks for regular visas?
Also, suppose you run your check and find that you have a person who has been charged with a felony but his case has not come to trial yet. Does he get his ZVisa?
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Most illegal aliens have on the books employment, requiring a Social Security account number. Will the "background checks" deliberately avoid employment history?
If you check their employment paper trail, you'll discover the federal felonies they committed, i.e. fraudulent social security numbers. Would that disqualify the Z applicant? Or does he get a Z visa as long as the government chooses not to prosecute his known felonies?
When I want to buy a gun.
IIRC when I bought my last gun it took longer and I was informed during the waiting period.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Usually it only takes a few minutes to do the check unless your state requires a waiting period. Of course, whether the check should be done at all is another issue.
Assumes truthful information from the person being checked. You give them your SSN, they check the relevant places and determine what they need to about you.
In the case of this amnesty - will applicants for a Z visa be required to provide all of the false names, social security numbers, and other such relevant identifiers, they have used while breaking our immigration laws? If not, there may be no way to check AT ALL whether these people have engaged in any conduct that would disqualify them, let alone to do it in 24 hours. This also means that even if such information is requested, that illegals actually provide it. Since I don't see how the government could possibly investigate the veracity of any illegals statement as to what false ID info he has used over the years, effectively anybody who has something to hide will be able to hide it.
This says nothing about the 1-day maximum wait time for issuance of the visa. Since these people "who have lived in the shadows" are so good at disapeearing, what is to stop someone who is ineligible from applying, getting the visa and then just as quickly disappearing before the feds can find out that "hey, this guy's shady!"
And if these felonies already bar someone from the program, then why did Senators Dole and Cornyn feel the need to introduce amendments to the bill to insert such conditions? Further, why did any Senator vote against the Cornyn amendment if what his amendment would do is already done in the bill?
We always enjoy a little spin on the site, and I'm sure we appreciate the effort by the White House to "inform" us. But until the President stops calling opponents of the bill some pretty unjustified names and portraying us as some sort of heathen xenophobes who want to destroy the country, I doubt that anything your office or the White House has to say will get a very warm reception.
"The range of crimes that disqualify applicants from the Z program extends into the thousands..."
Would that include, say, entering the country illegally?
In any case, I do appreciate the post and would make me feel a little better about the bill if it passed.
That's all well and good Kerrie, but the fact is that because the Cornyn amendment failed yesterday, hundreds of thousands of illegals who defied deportation orders are nevertheless eligible for amnesty. That is a disgrace. Not only did they break our law once by entering or staying illegally, now they have broken it twice by defying valid deportation orders. Apparently that is what passes for tough enforcement in the Bush-Kennedy Administration.
To make matters worse (and again because the Cornyn amendment failed) those illegals who engaged in identity theft are also eligible for amnesty. If an American engages in identity theft, it is often a felony. But illegals who engage in identity theft get a path to citizenship. What a disgrace.
Please tell the President that our Constitution and laws are not an ala carte menu for him to selectively pick and choose. Build the fence, enforce our laws, and don't make a terrible situation worse.
Frank Katz
Frank,
And good old Sam Brownback voted against the amendment.
I'm not sure how that can be spun as anything other than turning his back on those who want strong enforcement measures in any reform bill.
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Fred...Fred...Fred..!
The bill also contains a whole host of new tools to fight criminal, dangerous, and terrorist aliens.
The best tool in the shed is useless if the operator is unwilling to use it. Are we really going to believe that the federal bureacracy is going to be able to complete a thorough background check in 24 hours on people using falsified documents? Yeah, right.
You want to show us you're serious about enforcement? Fine- do it. Show us. Build the wall, find the over 600,000 who've defied deportation orders, trace duplicate Social Security numbers, etc. Then and only then I'll even consider any kind of "guest worker program", "Z visa" or any other kind of "comprehensive reform".
and we can argue about what respect is due, what on Earth would make any sane person think that the federal government could not only do something right, but do it right in 24 hours? This is a sham and the Administration is playing the American people for fools. Anyone who believes that the US will make even the slightest attempt to enforce the border crossing and criminal acts pieces of this bill is so stupid as to be fit only for slavery. The Bush Administration and the Republican leadership have ZERO credibility on this subject, so write away. Do appreciate the time you took to try to give us a snow job, though.
In Vino Veritas
The jig is up on that "truth."
Via Ankle Biting Pundits:
A list of crimes that WOULD NOT disqualify one for amnesty in Pennsylvania as put together by a former prosecutor:
* Involuntary Manslaughter
* Drug Possession (of any drug, like crack, heroin, etc.)
* Indecent Assault
* Luring a Child Into a Motor Vehicle
* Threat to Use Weapon of Mass Destruction
* Simple Assault
* Terroristic Threats
* Sexual Intercourse With An Animal
* False Swearing
* Unsworn Falsifications to Authorities
* Intimidation of Witnesses or Victims
* Concealing the Death of A Child
* Corrupting the Morals of a Minor
* Abuse of Corpse
* Cruelty to Animals
* Open Lewdness
* Prostitution
* Selling Alcohol to Minors
* Resisting Arrest
* Providing Weapons or Implements of Escape to Convicts
* Propulsion of Missiles Into Occupied Vehicle
* Use of Tear Gas in Labor Dispute
* Defiant Trespass
* Theft or Receiving Stolen Property (less than $2,000)
* Theft by Extortion (less than $2,000)
* Unauthorized Use Of A Motor Vehicle
* Up to 2 Convictions for Retail Theft
* Bad Checks (Less than $75,000)
* Forgery
* Commercial Bribery
* Insurance Fraud
* Identity Theft (Less than $2,000)
* Loitering and Prowling
* Welfare Fraud
* Failure to Stop At The Scene of Motor Vehicle Accident Involving Death or Personal Injury
* 3 DUI Convictions
Can't say it much better than that.
Nearly every one of those crimes would disqualify you or I from a decent job but they are not problem for granting citizenship.
Unreal.
Absolutely amazing that some are fighting tooth and nail to give the degenerates, dishonest and depraved citizenship in the greatest country in the world.
Thanks for posting that list jimmuy8. The more I read her disingenuous responses, the madder I get at this whole debacle.
Unfortunately, since I grant you the benefit of good intentions, it appears that you understand neither the tension that drives the law, nor have you accurately read the bill.
1) The felonies limitations you mention are short circuited either directly within the bill or in the practical implementation of the bill.
2) Even if that were not the case, it is clear that the Bush administration has no intention of enforcing those provisions.
The INS cannot check the current tourist visas in a timely manner. This bill will allow only a certain delay and then the applicant will get their Visa because the government did not find out any negative information in the alloted time.
And there are not going to be any time tables for enforcement because after just six months "temporary" visas can be issued.
There was never any good faith enforcement intended by the people who put this abomination together.
They are all crooks and liars including this jerk from the White House.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
People can quibble whether it's thousands or hundreds of crimes that dis-qualify an illegal immigrant from becoming a citizen. The fact remains - Uncle Sam has not enforced the current immigration laws for the past 20 years so why should we believe they are suddenly going to start now.
The last attempt to do something was a bill authorizing a fence along the southern border last year but no funding was ever given. That doesn't give me warm fuzzys that anything different will happen if this bill is passed. Just more rhetoric.
And, let's face it, when Ted Kennedy is involved, I want to grab my wallet and hold on tight the same as if I'm buying a car from a dishonest used car salesman (sorry used car salesmen for impugning your integrity by the comparison).
To quote an old presidential campaign slogan "Show me the Beef".
The fact remains - Uncle Sam has not enforced the current immigration laws for the past 20 years so why should we believe they are suddenly going to start now.
If the immigration laws of today were enforced we wouldn't have the need for any new immigration legislation.
This plan is just 'putting lipstick on a pig' so to speak.
Perhaps you take us as totally ignorant on immigration and visa law?
Your paragraph about terrorist is the worst type of smokescreen/strawman possible.
Terrorists have been--and were--and are--ineligible for citizenship or any sort a visa ALREADY! If I had the time I'd pull out my copy of the immigration code and cite the sections.
If the WH had any interest in actually convincing me you were serious about enforcing the new law, at the very least you could be smart enough to not quote old law to me as a reason to support this scam.
Regardless, the bill is terrible and does significant damage to the country. Prove you can fix the crossing problems and maybe then we'll listen. As for Bush, it's too bad the Democrats won't impeach him.
I'm curious as to how this post ended up on the front page. If some White House hack states that this is not "amnesty", is that going to get posted as well?
Why not? You'd rather have an echo chamber?
Who knows if they bother reading reactions to their posts, but even if they don't it let's us know where they're coming from so we might better be able to respond- in this case respond in opposition.
take the time to post at RS, it should be front paged.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
They spend the time to post, I spend the time to read.
However, I have seen nothing to change my mind.
to move me from ticked off to really, really, really ticked off.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
You have to remember in this case, the fact there is a message is the message. If they weren't trying to mushroom us I would be worried.
I don't remember them doing this during the Miers debacle. They still haven't done it on any of the alternative energy issues. The list of legislative issues they don't do this on is as long as your arm.
What does it tell you that they feel the need to with this ?
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Is not my intent for this reply to come across as being disrespectful. Having been there myself more times than I can count, I do appreciate the earnest effort of anyone in communications saddled with the task of defending the indefensible. But, I do have to say your contention that "terrorists are not eligible for the legalization program" struck me as laugh out loud hilarious!
If I am to buy this point is being significant I also have to buy into the idea that terrorists are going to "self-identify" so that the government can exclude them from participation in the Z-Visa Program. I can just see it now:
Wolf Blitzer -- "It's apparent that today's suicide bomber, Mr. Mohammed Mohammed, declined to self-identify himself as a terrorist when he received his provisional Z-Visa, but has done so today in spectacular fashion. In doing so, he proved that the Bush amnesty is working; we can only hope that eventually all terrorists who lied to get their provisional leases will eventually come forward as Mr. Mohammed has done today."
Better be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident security. --Edmund Burke
Blog: TMYN
That was my reaction when reading this statement from the whitehouse. "Terrorists are not eligible for the legalization program. Period." hah. You think they fill out their immigration forms with their occupation listed as "Terrorist" ????
Lindsy Graham is John McCain's lickspittle poodle dog, and a pretty weak minded one at that. He does know the "roll over" trick, and has the "bite the hand that feeds you" one down pat.
"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle
Graham has copied Kennedy in raising his voice and turning red on the senate floor when he is in a corner.
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do to your country The Unknown Politician
with this bill.
See here for example.
If there is no "tamper proof" form of documentation for everyone who is legally in this country, how do we know who is here, whether they have gone through the Z visa process assuming it is sound (which in my view it is not)? And what if many or most illegal aliens would just rather stay "in the shadows" so as to continue as they are now. The legislation seems to assume that its good intentions will compel everyone to move in the right direction. People will do what they want to do.
But most of all, this whole debate over bureaucratic process and hoops prospective legal immigrants must jump through is really just an empty one. The southern border will remain open with a big welcome mat as the bill has no serious enforcement measures to control the influx of illegal immigrants.
Take the necessary steps to control the border, stemming the flow of illegals... Once that is effectively done then let's talk about paths to citizenship and all that. And over time allow assimilation to take place for those here, legal or not. I don't see the "crisis" to pass legislation to in effect give amnesty and legalization to the 12 to 20 million illegals here. Heck they're here now and have been here for a while, and according to the pro-bill people, doing jobs Americans won't. So let that situation exist for a number of years more while the border thing gets dealt with, then let's make a deal.
This bill is worse than the status-quo.
Just my two centavos.
Jack
The World's Ruined
... I doubt terrorists are hoping to become citizens. I kind of think they prefer lurking "in the shadows."
Jack
The World's Ruined
So if "Wolfgang du Marrier" (not his real name) comes into the office, with a Stinger missle strapped to his back, an AK-47 in one hand, and produces a social security card that says "John Public 999-00-8888" and one each drivers license with both names covered in a white powdery substance that turns your opiate field test kit bright purple and applies for a z visa because he needs to travel to Canada to pick up the ransom, he won't get one, right?
Wrong.
He hasn't been convicted yet, has he?
The range of crimes that disqualify applicants from the Z program ... includes any felony
You really expect us to believe the deliberate plan of this bill isn't to give Z-visas to millions of felons? Or do you expect us to believe your side is too dumb to know that's exactly what the law will do?
According to federal law, you know that thing that the Constitution says your boss has primary responsibility for enforcing:
for the purpose of obtaining anything of value from any person, or for any other purpose ... falsely represents a number to be the social security account number assigned by the Commissioner of Social Security to him ... shall be guilty of a felony and upon conviction thereof shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.
That's one obvious reason the bill forbids serious background checks before issuing the Z visas: you don't want anybody checking what social security number(s) the illegal used. And as long as you avert your eyes from the felonies that the illegal committed, you can give him his instant Z visa.
I'm recommending this blog hoping it gets into the recommended list, so more people will see what pathetic misrepresentations are being made by the White House in favor of this bill. I hope others who see how ridiculous this spin is will also recommend the blog.
Hogan's Heroes Sgt Schultz. "I know nossing, I hear nossing, I see nossing!"
Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what you can do to your country The Unknown Politician
>>>That's one obvious reason the bill forbids serious background checks before issuing the Z visas: you don't want anybody checking what social security number(s) the illegal used. And as long as you avert your eyes from the felonies that the illegal committed, you can give him his instant Z visa.<<<
But since the Administration and much of the Senate believes the American public is a bunch of simpleton rubes, they try to slip this kind of nonsense through. This particular point needs to be shouted from the rooftops. If nothing else, privacy issues ARE something that Americans understand, after incidents like the TJ Maxx credit card number ripoff and hundreds of similar incidents.
Alas, it'll never happen, since the press is complicit in promoting this sham of a bill, along with their co-conspirators in the Senate.
But, you see, we think you're lying. Just like your bill.
There is much in it for the nobility of the beltway, but nothing but bs for us the people.
While I appreciate reading a White House response on Red State, which speaks well for the blog, Mr Rushton should be aware that these kinds of reassurances come from a source that has sadly lost all credibility on this bill.
It is also difficult to square the reassurances with the rather obvious and increasingly well covered aspects of the Z Visa's which will be handed out by the millions upon request over a short period of time. Only today we hear that the Feds may be suspending passport requirements to Mexico and Canada because they are unable to process a far smaller number of cases. Yet we are expected to believe that 13+ million Z Visas will be properly investigated to weed out felons and terrorists. Meanwhile millions more illegal immigrants will be flooding across the border claiming they were here before 2007.
This is the most foolish thing this President has ever done by far, and there is an ample menu of choices from which to make the selection.
Gotta love the imitation of the famous Clinton statement "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is"
In Bush White House speak, it's now, "it all depends on what the meaning of criminal is".
How about the same definition that we hold people coming in legally to this country to. That would be fair, that would be honest, that would be what the American people want.
_______________________________
Fred...Fred...Fred..!
Exactly what do you think would happen to you if you were to illegally use a Social Security Number?
Now tell me this, why is your boss, the guy who WE elected trying to shove amnesty down our throats? Oh, and don't try to claim it is not amnesty, because it is.
This is not hard, even though your boss and his band of merry idiots (Ted Kennedy and John McCain) are making it hard.
Secure the border NOW
Enforce EXISTING laws
Empower Local police to enforce immigration laws
Cut off all services to illegals except BONA FIDE emergency medical services
Come down VERY HARD on those that would employ illegals
If you do all that, illegals will leave. Then and only then should you address a guest worker program.
Oh yeah and one more thing, make Mexico provide for their own folks. We have enough of our own problems to take care of.
background check? I have ZERO confidence that all these background checks can be performed in a timely and accurate fashion. The State Department can't handle the additional requests for passports. What makes you think the additional bureaucracy required for this illegal immigration act will be anything but a complete mess?
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The CIA has better politicians than it has spies - Fred Thompson
That's what the law says - issue the Z visa when the background check is completed or the next day, whichever is earlier.
I thank you for once again coming to "explain" the felony portion of the bill however I and obviously others are still not buying it because of the "convicted" portion of your argument. These people are working right now and are not in jail so it is apparent they are not "convicted". I wanted to share with you that I rec'd my invitation to the Presidents Dinner put on by the NRSC nad the NRCC, I called to let them know that the 2500 it would take to come to that dinner will be better spent on Senator Hagel's new challenger out in Nebraska and any other challenger to any one of the Senators who is voting for this monstrosity of a bill. I hope the President enjoys his dinner amongst those who will be the only supporters left after this debacle is voted on.
Some criminal offenses will be pardoned. This is indeed amnesty.
You have a bill two crates high which effects tens of millions of people, some of those people will have criminal records, some of those cirminal acts will be pardoned. Why?
Because they are striking a deal. In the real world sometimes that's what it takes to get things done.
reporting that the final vote for cloture will be lost and the bill will be killed, per Major Garrett, if this holds I will be one of millions thrilled to see that new media has been the one that put a light on backroom deals made in the "shadows" against the interests of the American people. God Bless America and the new media, I love you guys.
The thing about terrorists is that I am much more concerned about those that are undetected than those that have been convicted of terrorism in some court of law.
What would have prevented half of the Fort Dix Six from getting Z visas (which would have assisted them in their mission to kill Americans on American soil and hindered our ability to catch them) under this bill? Nothing at all so far as I can tell.
If the people who assembled this bill were serious about security, we wouldn't be opening the door for any jihadist to easily obtain permanent temporary legal status. All they gotta do is get across the border (or get a non-immigration visa and overstay illegally). We know they'll have no trouble on either count.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Warner voted no, Lott no, it's dead yeah!!!!!!!! Specter yes we knew that though.
No way! I am downright shocked. He is one of my sell out Senators, and has been getting hammered with negative emails and phone calls.
Perhaps he has been listening to us.
We do not need another immigration bill. If the Govenment would enforce the laws we have on the books we would not have politicians trying to fool the american people into thinking they are getting tough on immigration.
They haven't fooled me. They want the same status quo, but want to put on a show that they are doing something.
Do you think that we could get away with stealing someone's ss card and their identity. We would be put under the jail.
I for one am fed up with these politicians. Their only concern is getting re-elected.
He learned new words from his constituents and I hope he learned the meaning of by the people for the people, I can dream can't I? 50 nay's, motion is not agreed to, Reid is pulling the bill, right now, turn on C-Span.
no 24 hour background check is going to tell you what illegal income the illegal earned during his year(s) of illegal occupation of our country, much less what federal income taxes and social security taxes he or she avoided during this period. A proper backgound check would be more apt to uncover such felonious activity. But that would take days, if not weeks. Which is precisely why this 24 hour check is such a sham. If I were under investigation by the IRS, you can be sure it wouldn't be for 24 hours.
I take back my 'been in the Nevada sun too long without a hat"'remark earlier today. He's completely lost it.
Shedding tears for his staff who worked so hard. Feeling sorry for folks who don't abide by the law etc etc.
He sums it up with a relevant quote:
"I'm a creature of the Senate"
Yes he is - and quite a slug at that.
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"Enlightened statesmen will not always be at the helm." -- James Madison
I am watching this clown. He has just lost it. But, I really think he knew this would not pass and he is using this to divide our party.
"he is using this to divide our party" - The President and a select few in the Senate are doing a much better job.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
I would express my views here on how the White House has handled this issue, but I'd probably get banned from Redstate for my language.
Many of us have spent the last 6 years giving it all - emotionally, economically, etc. - to defend President Bush. Then, we ask him not to give illegals amnesty, and he kicks us in the face. He says we don't want what's best for America.
The "trust me" thing has worn thin. His Secretary of Homeland Security accuses us of wanting illegals executed. Several of our Republican Senators call us "bigots" and "xenophobes".
All do respect, the President can take a walk. I'll continue to support him on the issues important to us, because he's the man in the office who can do it. But, I don't trust him to stand behind us.
Sorry, but this is just crap. read this bill and u find out there is no waitning line or fine to STAY in America, only to receive citz. Also in this bill, the mexicans that receive a Z card can bring there spouse and kids to america. They are allowed to file taxes and receive Earned Income Credit Tax Refunds. Mexicans would be allowed to receive Social Security Money. Even the CBO states this bill will cost os Billions of the next years. I for one will never donate money to the republican party of this president continues in this reckless manner.
They still don't know really who is coming or going. The real problem is, what person here illegally is going to turn themself in to pay thousands in fines and back taxes? I wouldn't, would you?
Give business a choice, pay Americans a fair wage for these jobs, or pay huge penalities and jail time for promoting illegal entry to the country at a time when security is a real concern. Big Biz and the Catholic Church need to get with the program.
jburke6000
No. Only convicted or self-identified terrorists and felons are barred. José goes to get his Z visa. He's been working in the United States, variously, as Marcos de los Juevos, Miguel de San António de las Vegas, and Juán Baptista de Jesus. Each of these aliases is attached in his work records to a different stolen social security number.
Now it's time to get his Z visa. Does he pull out his fake names for his background check? Of course not. He pulls out the same Mexican passport he used to get his California driver's license under his real name. It's the same name he's using for his Bank of America credit card and the registration of his litter in the public schools.
It's just not the name he has used for his illegal employment.
Under "occupation," he will write "day labor," and that will be that. A records check under his real name will show no illegal activity whatsoever.
He's on a Path to Citizenship.
"The range of crimes that disqualify applicants from the Z program extends into the thousands and includes any felony"
My understanding is that fraudulent use of a social security number is a felony. Are illegal aliens who used fake social security numbers disqualified?
My understanding that identity theft is a felony. Are illegal aliens who used stolen social security numbers and otherwise utilized an American citizen's identity disqualified? This is hardly a victimless crime.
My understanding is that tax evasion (evading employment taxes and evading income taxes are seperate crimes) is a felony. Are illegal aliens who worked in the cash economy and committed these crimes disqualified? My understanding is that they are not even required to pay back taxes or any penalties.
My understanding is that a second illegal re-entry after a previous removal is a felony. Are illegal aliens who committed this felony disqualified?
My understanding that ignoring a Federal Judge's deportation and removal order is a felony. Are these felons disqualified?
I thought not!
I'm not sure that this "clarification" provided much clarity.