Shadegg Supporting Amnesty
By SonoranVoter Posted in Immigration — Comments (22) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
My Congressman, Rep. John Shadegg, normally a crusader for my conservative values, just said he supports amnesty for illegals:
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/05/04/20080504tempworker0504...
Shadegg backs guest-worker program
by Mary Jo Pitzl - May. 4, 2008 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic
On the eve of a key vote on a temporary-worker program for Arizona, the proposal has won the endorsement of a friend in a high place: U.S. Rep. John Shadegg, R-Ariz.
"I have been a consistent supporter of a guest-worker program from . . . forever," Shadegg said Friday. "Since when I was growing up in Arizona."
Shadegg said the concept of the program scheduled for a state Senate debate Monday morning is sound, and Arizona's action might spur a deadlocked U.S. Congress into action.
"I'd like to see the pressure this would put on Congress to act," Shadegg said.
The temporary-worker program, Senate Bill 1508, would establish a way for Arizona employers who can prove there is a labor shortage in their industry to hire workers through Mexico. Workers would be limited to a two-year stay in Arizona.
The bill is the work of Senate Minority Leader Marsha Arzberger, D-Willcox, and Rep. Bill Konopnicki, R-Safford. Last month, the bill picked up the added sponsorship of Senate President Tim Bee and House Speaker Jim Weiers. That has enhanced its chances of passing even though it is drawing condemnation from state Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, the Legislature's most vocal protect-the-border proponent.
Shadegg emphasized that he is not familiar with the details of the bill, but the idea is appealing.
"I think a guest-worker program is a step down the road to solving this problem," he said, referring to illegal immigration.
Shadegg was among congressional members who last year backed a comprehensive immigration plan. That plan was shouted down as providing amnesty for illegal immigrants and neglecting to first secure the border.
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What is wrong with Arizona Republicans on immigration??!?
You said he "just" came out in support of this. His quote (from your cut and paste) is:
"I have been a consistent supporter of a guest-worker program from . . . forever," Shadegg said Friday. "Since when I was growing up in Arizona."
Of course, the "anything I disagree with is amnesty" philosophy probably doesn't help anyone on this issue. As for AZ, most supporters of comprehensive immigration reform are from areas with significant immigrant communities.
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"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas
repubs, conservatives will be "liberal" on the issue.
And i trust Mccain got the message.
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sonaranvoter
OK...so no guest worker, the heck with the agricultural industry in the West. A flawed plan in my book that can actually make it through a legislator to a governor's desk is better than what has been offered up by our do nothing Congress or the likes of Tom Terrific Tancredo.
Maybe I'm wrong, do you actually have a plan besides "Round them up, send them home"? Tell me that you have a real plan that can actually get approved in any legislative body then signed into law and I'll apologize, but moving ahead with a real immigration policy is being held hostage to those that have no real plan is just plain annoying.
By the way, Arizona is a bright light in the West when it comes to dealing with illegal immigration with the recent crack downs and the going after businesses that hire them, maybe not perfect but a darn sight better than anywhere else going on in this country. Arizona should be applauded not have brick bats thrown at them.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Either way, you're suffering from some issues up in that gray matter you call a brain. Take your crazy and peddle it elsewhere, please.
I have to hand it to the author for the classic political sleight of hand. Redefine something you don't like to lump it into a category that is generally disapproved of so you can turn people against it.
The problem with immigration reform is not the guest-worker program per se. And changing the law to allow a greater number of individuals to enter the country and work here legally is not amnesty.
Per the first definition on dictionary.com for the word amnesty, it is: "a general pardon for offenses, esp. political offenses, against a government, often granted before any trial or conviction." That means that the individual in question must have done something illegal. Getting a work visa (temporary or otherwise) and then coming here to earn a living is the exact opposite of that. Amnesty is the act of giving the millions of people who didn't bother following the rules a free pass and a pat on the back (and, most important, for them, a green card).
Make sure the policy in question actually is amnesty before you condemn someone for "supporting amnesty."
reldim
I keep wonder if those who are the most strident and most vocal about this topic actually want to effectively dealt with the problem. After all, if you hold out for a "prefect" answer to the immigration problem, what ever the heck that is, then nothing will actually get done. If that's your end game, to actually not ever do anything so you can continue to be angry, well I think these folks are succeeding.
Tom Terrific Tancredo is exhibit A. in the list of people who like to demagogue this issue and play to the angry, yet never offers up real legislation that can get the job done.
While I disagree with the President and his push made a two years ago on immigration reform, at least he showed the leadership to put a plan on the table and to push the dialog along. Unfortunately the President and John McCain did not get the point that we the American people do not trust our government, and want to see real progress made on securing our border before the other actions are taken. McCain seems to get that point now.
Guess it's easier to be angry than actually come up with solutions to the problem of illegal immigration.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
with better solutions than guest workers.
Let's assume for a moment that America actually has a labor shortage. Why import guest workers instead of true immigrants, who want to permanently join our country? I don't think there's a shortage of legal applicants. And you avoid social problems such as effective indentured servitude.
But let's question the labor shortage. I've little doubt that there's trouble getting people to work long hard hours for minimal pay. But that doesn't mean the country needs guest workers; it means the employer needs to offer a market wage, or make way for a business that can.
Republicans have a natural split over this issue. Social conservatives tend not to see the point of such programs, especially amnesties. (And yes, if we're accepting current illegal immigrants as legal guest workers, that's an amnesty.) Libertarians and business boosters often take the opposite view. All this is rational, and the party will have to discuss its way to a compromise. In light of this, let's be a little sparser with accusations of bad faith, please.
Whitfox
Might be easy, but I see no plan that stands any chance of being passed promoted by the hard core anti illegal factions. Therefore I can only assert that they must enjoy being angry and that's about all I can say for them.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
The problem with that solution is really that some people aren't inclined to that "solution" - guest workers are likely to be low-skill, uneducated people (are agricultural workers really going to hold advanced degrees?). There are many opponents of immigration reform who's gripe is that we already allow too many such immigrants in permanently to the exclusion of individuals who are likely to be more productive members of the economic community.
I can't really blame those that think that. To allow permanent entry to people who will make a life out of migrant farm work, making minimum wage for something like 9 months of the year is to import a net liability. They are likely to draw far more in terms of government and social services than they will contribute in terms of increased tax revenue and economic activity and growth. Since we limit the number of permanent entrants each year, it would seem preferable to allot those spots to well-educated individuals who will be net positives for the economy. And so, to the extent we need the low-skilled individuals, some would prefer to see them enter for limited period and with limited "permissions" and then have them leave.
Perhaps if we reformed the rules for legal immigration we would find that we wouldn't need to use a guest-worker program and we might be willing to bring those people in on a permanent basis.
....really a disagreement with me, though it was addressed to me.
Of course it's easier to be angry. It's politically expedient too. The longer something is "live" the longer you can use it at the ballot box. Would Tancredo have any traction left if we actually passed a workable immigration bill? For that matter, would the nutters at La Rasa? To the extent people on both sides believe that having the issue remain at issue is good for their electoral fortunes you get no action. Only when one side realizes it is going to suffer politically do you get progress as that side will usually concede things for no better reason than to get people to stop talking about it.
Enforcement of existing laws has to be the central feature of any "comprehensive" bill. And actually needs to precede it. The worst thing for last summer's attempt was that proponents of the bill were forced to use the same arguments that were made in the 80s. And enough people are around who remember that we got the promises but no follow-through that time. McCain can probably get some amnesty through - if he goes into office and spends a couple of years pushing his ICE people for vigorous enforcement and shows that he will enforce the law and that enforcement can have an effect.
Very true. I've made essentially the same point at various times before.
Usually, the Tancredo crowd just started chanting Amnesty louder. Some of them started making quasi-racist anti-Hispanic slurs and I gave up eventually.
"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas
Those people, like our diarist here, are equally opposed to legal and illegal immigration. That cuts against the grain of American tradition, and that's why Tancredo gains no traction.
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Very true.
"I ain't never votin' fo another Democrat so long as I can draw breath! I'll vote for a dog first!" - Leola Thomas
to participate in the guest-worker program without penalty and ahead of other deserving guest-workers would be an amnesty. The guest-worker program should be for those who demonstrate a respect for our country and a respect for the rule of law. There are millions of law abiding foreigners who would make great guest workers or otherwise legal immigrants to our great country. What can be clearer than that?
Can I leave an un-recommendation for a diary? This is the first diary I've read here in 3 years 31 weeks of membership that I wish I could.
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How does the above have any relevance to amnesty?
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