Steve Forbes, Rudy, Romney, and the economy
By Soren Dayton Posted in 2008 | Economy | Massacusetts | Mitt Romney | Rudy Giuliani | Steve Forbes | taxes — Comments (46) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
Two days ago (technical problems delayed this) in Manchester, New Hampshire, I sat down with Steve Forbes, and we talked about his endorsement of Rudy Giuliani, and his thoughts on the economic records of the other candidates. As a supporter of Rudy Giuliani's he has the most to say about what he likes about Rudy, but it was interesting to me that he ripped pretty hard into Mitt Romney's record.
The next step of the Presidential race will turn to Michigan and South Carolina. Michigan is a big northern state in, perhaps, the worst economic state in the country, the old rust belt. Voters are going to want to know what can be done for the economy. This is different than taxes, which was an important issue in New Hampshire. In Michigan, the question on voters' mind will be "who will create jobs?" Mitt Romney's record is weaker than is generally assumed. The Club for Growth is already up with ads attacking Huckabee, although I suspect that this is more press release. John McCain, as a Senator, has his voting record and new policy proposals to defend and propose. Erick and Neil have more on that.
South Carolina is more complicated. I will be back with more about that.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
If so, Romney just postponed the inevitable for 4 years. Whereas Rudy governed for 8, and made the city safe for Bloomberg as opposed to a liberal Democratic hack politician. Now Nurse Bloomberg can be a pain, but he has been far, far better than the standard Democratic alternative.
Also, Rudy saved both jobs and lives with his policies as mayor.
He probably also saved lives as a US Attorney by taking on the mob. While many of us may not like lawyers, Rudy wasn't an ambulance chaser or corporate lawyer out to make millions (which with an NYU degree he could have), the guy was serving his country.
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions."
Rudy ran a coal mine
For a more fair treatment of the issue try looking at an outside observer.
Club For Growth - Romney's Record
"Nevertheless, given his outstanding private sector entrepreneurial experience; the strong pro-growth positions he has taken on the campaign trail; his overall record as governor; and the fact that the U.S. Congress will not be as liberal as the Massachusetts Legislature, we are reasonably optimistic that, as President, Mitt Romney would generally advocate a pro-growth agenda."
You have to work with the cards you are dealt, and in these cases, the Democratic legislatures. That said, you can't help to question Romney's flip-floppiness and start to understand why he couldn't get things done while the stubborn Giuliani could.
Romney looks really good as a president from a technical standpoint. I'm concerned about his character.
"I can say - not as a patriotic bromide...that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and...the only moral country in the history of the world. - Ayn Rand
And while technically correct about the MA unemployment rate being (slightly) higher than the national average from 2003 (5.7%) to 2007 (5.2%) the fact remains that the unemployment rate dropped under Romney during his tenure after shooting up from 2.7% to almost 6% in the aftermath of 9/11.
And while it's true that Romney failed to get the final 0.3% of the 2000 voter approved 0.85% income tax cut enacted by the legislature, it's more than a little disingenuous to try to compare the state tax situation in Massachusetts in 2003 (after 12-years of Republican governors) to the city tax situation Rudy inherited from General Dinkins in 1994.
Methinks Forbes (whom I supported in 2000 for President) is only jealous because Romney is far better looking than he.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
I don't think it is fair to criticize Mitt for not being able to get things through the legislature. The higher in government you go up, the more partisanship slows things down.
I am not picking on Romney. I am just amazed that he went out of his way to pay for an ad against Forbes, and that he did so in a way that was not moving the ball forward.
It seems almost visceral with him for some reason. He seems dead set against the notion that we should tax working peoples' incomes but not the income from investments and the like. And his dislike for that approach leads him to adopt decidedly anti-conservative rhetoric.
I'm not saying this as an excuse or a justification, only an observation.
FWIW, I get the impression that he and Forbes butted heads even before 1996 and probably several times since. Just in watching Romney's body language here (you have to go out to after the 5-minute mark) it seems like there's history there.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
This is a RUDY/McCAIN/HUCKSTER spin.
Romney's record is consistently conservative... Unlike the other liberal leaning candidates.
...or are you really this ignorant of reality?
Are you joking? What size flip-flop do you wear?
"I can say - not as a patriotic bromide...that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and...the only moral country in the history of the world. - Ayn Rand
...as a source for an indictment of Romney's record.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
This if from Townhall:
... Make permanent the bush tax cuts NOW…not in 2010
... Permanently index the alternative minimum tax (AMT) and then eliminate it when practical (no timetable).
... Get rid of the Death Tax
... Lower the capitol gains and dividend rate to 10% and index to inflation. (Here is where he could go further and actually eliminate the capitol gains tax).
... Lower corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%.
... Trio of tax free savings accounts – Roth style – available to ALL income classes.
... Tax simplication strategy – one page tax return
... Three rates – 10% (40k), 15% (150k), and 30% (150k ).
It’s an optional tax plan. You can pick it or the current tax code. Unlike Thompson plan, you can opt in and out any year. For major deduction remain:
Mortgage
Charitable
State and Local taxes
Child tax credit
Thanks for posting this. That is a very interesting plan, and one that I could support. If only Rudy wasn't so liberal on social issues I'd gladly support him. As it is, I really don't think I can.
I think, therefore I vote Republican
I'm glad he finally put out a specific plan.
Lowering the capitol gains and dividend tax rate will likely boost the stock market so significantly that it will actually increase government revenues just as Bush's capitol gains and dividend tax cut did.
Lowering the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25% would be fantastic for the economy and corporate profits.
"... Tax simplication strategy – one page tax return"
Hooray! This is a huge political winner and will save hundreds of billions of dollars of unecessary tax accounting costs.
"Three rates – 10% (40k), 15% (150k), and 30% (150k )."
It'sa good plan. You can think of it as a 10% tax rate for the poor, 15% tax rate for the middle class, and 30% tax rate for the upper class. It does seem like a pretty big tax cut for upper middle class and upper class people without much of a tax cut for lower middle class people. I know lower middle class people don't pay early as much and I might be misreading the effect of these tax rates, but if there isn't at least some tax cut for lower income people the Democrats could be able to demonize it easier.
And if he isn't, then whats the point.
Tax plans are easy. Tax cuts are easy (at least if you have a friendly legislature). The real deal is the cut spending. That's a tough job.
If this does come to a 3 way with Huckabee and McCain, Rudy will pull a lot of economic conservatives with this plan.
Being a fiscon, I know that McCain has been consistent and relentless in fighting the pork and cut the federal spending for 20 years. Even if he had to go against the big-government big-spending GOP we got nowadays.
As stated, tax cuts are easy. But borrowing and spend is as bad as tax and spend (actually, it is worse).
Spending cuts, both proposed and passed, in his time in Washington. Just the ones he sponsored. I remember McCain/Fiengold and McCain/Kennedy. Is there a McCain/spending cut?
McCain-Kennedy would have increased spending by trillions of dollars. More money spend on illegal aliens who would be legal and therefore eligible for more social welfare programs.
Taxpayers would get the shaft in a McCain administration.
During Mayor Giuliani's tenure as mayor, crime plummeted throughout that time. (The decline actually started the last two years of Dinkens and has continued under Bloomberg.) This even though he fired the police chief whose ideas are credited with much of the success. Most New Yorkers think Giuliani's support for aggressive police tactics, and, yes, draconian gun control, also contributed greatly to the decline. The economy boomed and it is to his credit that he did not intervene to screw it up. But he had no success in education despite the fact that his appointees controlled the school board for most of his two terms as mayor. On transportation, he did absolutely nothing either to relieve the citywide gridlock or to begin to address the overcrowded public transit system. And he left the city with a multibillion dollar deficit that required his successor to request a 25% increase in property taxes. (That is not a typo. The overwhelming Democratic majority on the City Council trimmed it by about a third, which represents an interesting role reversal. One reason Democrats keep getting re-elected here is that they keep taxes low for middle class homeowners.)
So while Giuliani was a successful mayor -- you can't argue with the fact that New York City is now the safest large city in the US that has not been permitted to annex its low-crime suburbs -- his record was not perfect. And as one commenter already aluded, he did this while facing Democratic City Council majorities that were typically something like 46 to 4.
He might well be a more successful president with a Democratic congress than with a Republican congress.
Charlie Hall
Forbes and Rudy sense Romney's blood is in the water. Now they're moving in for the kill. Nothing wrong with some bareknuckle politics when one of the candidates is on the ropes.
Clearly Romney is all but acknowledging that Michigan is his final stand too.
Mitt pulled all of his ads from South Carolina and every other state and is putting all of his campaign resources into Michigan for the next 6 days. It was just reported on Fox News.
Looks like Mitt realizes that it's Michigan or Bust. If he doesn't win Michigan then I'd expect him to drop out and endorse another candidate. I hope he endorses FRED! so we can stop Huckabee in his tracks in South Carolina.
A quick question - have you ever, in your 7 1/2 day long RedState history, posted anything that was not a slam on Mitt Romney?
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
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Donate to the Rs in Close Senate Races through Slatecard
It makes sane people crazy and crazy people stupid.
And sometimes in rapid succession.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
I hope to post something about Fred Thompson's big comeback and path to the nomination. I might also include some points on why being a true lifelong Conservative and the personality trait of "authenticity" are the true Reagan traits that created the Reagan Revolution.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Fred is Freds problem.
Fred would be able to saturate the airwaves, buy the Iowa Straw Poll, and propel himself to early victories outside of his home region to Republicans who don't know him as well in Iowa and New Hampshire.
Difference is, Fred wouldn't have to spend as much on media consultants and campaign strategists to tell him what to say to get Conservatives excited and rewrite the ideology he's pursued his entire political career.
So Mitt is not only Fred's problem, but every other candidates' problem except McCain and Huckabee.
The sooner Fred can go head-to-head with McCain and Huckabee, the sooner we can truly find an acceptable "real" Conservative to challenge Rudy for the nomination. Mitt's gumming up the works for my guy with all his TV ad saturation and convincing some that he's still "viable" in the face of Iowa and New Hampshire losses, so yeah, I don't like that one bit.
South Carolina is historically a better Republican bellweather, and the last thing I want to see is Mitt pealing enough votes from Fred to hand SC to Huck or McCain. That would be a disaster for the party to have to choose between Huckabee/McCain/Rudy the rest of the way.
If I'm not mistaken Mitt Romney has, in Iowa,Wyoming and NH, garnered the most delegates for the convention. Is that not each candidates goal?
Buchanan at this time in 1992 and 1996. Was he ever "viable"?
I worked on the Forbes campaign in 96, and we tried to spin Forbes' win in Delaware a few days after NH, and then our win in Arizona, the same way against Dole and Buchanan. I know what you're selling, problem is no one's buying it.
It's more about expectations, momentum, and regional strategy than anything else. THat's why Rudy's getting the free pass until Florida, and Fred is through South Carolina.
We'll find out how "viable" your guy is in a few weeks when he's endorsing another candidate and announcing he's out of the race.
Forbes has a bone to pick with Romney because he ran $150,000 worth of attack ads against his flat tax in the '96 Iowa caucuses and Republican primaries. Romney told the Boston Globe that Forbes' plan was a boon for the rich and would make the GOP look like the party of fat cats.
I mean, it's been 12-years - time to move on.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Forbes running for President actually forced all the candidates---even democrats---talk about tax simplification. For Romney to run adds against Forbes on a "fat cat" objection shows that Romney was not a movement conservative.
You cannot be considered a "movement conservative" unless you support the Forbes version of the Flat Tax?
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
to go out of your way to put a squash on an innovative tax simplification plan by using left wing arguments (e.g. helps the rich) is not consistent with a movement conservative.
A movement conservative says something like, tax simplication is a good idea, but is a flat tax the best way we can do it.
Romney was right on the merits of the plan, but some of his rhetoric at the time left more than a little to be desired.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
Forbes plan didn't even do away with FICA. About the only person it was a good deal for was Forbes. It would've left us with a very regressive tax scheme. Proposing a flat tax at 17% with no deductions AND FICA left in place (for a combined > 30% effective Federal tax rate on the middle class) is a good way to commit political suicide.
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Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Under Romney's logic, anything that Democrats can say "helps the rich" should be opposed on that basis.
Why not just become democrats then?
FYI--Romney is my #2 choice, but things like this are the reason why he does not become #1
"The problem with the Forbes flat tax is that it isn't flat at all-it's a zero tax on the wealthy and a 17% tax on working Americans,' Romney said yesterday. Tm hoping that by running these ads voters will realize the Forbes flat tax is a gimmick, a phony, and not what it pretends to be."'
-Boston Globe, Jan. 21, 1996
Romney said yesterday. Tm hoping that by running these ads voters will realize the Forbes flat tax is a gimmick, a phony, and not what it pretends to be."'
Talk about the Pot calling the Kettle black!
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
not something that makes him more endearing now. Calling it a gimmick isn't very constructive either.
I am voting for Fred on the 15th (I live in Michigan) and quotes like Romney's criticism of Forbes make Romney less endearing in my eyes.
You use Rudy's website to analyze Romney. That's lame and obviously biased. People have a hard time understanding the beast that is the Massachusetts legislature. Romney saved Massachusetts from another Dukakis like disaster. He gets major points just for keeping the state afloat. Furthermore, Rudy's propaganda says nothing of Romney's work in the private sector. Rudy was a lawyer his whole life. Romney saved and created jobs his whole life.