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Just a Company of American paratroopers, a guitar plugged
into the outpost's PA system, and a whole lot of demolitions.
Does ANY Candidate Want My Vote For President?
By David Hinz Posted in 2008 — Comments (383) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
PUT YOUR HAND BACK DOWN, JOHN!
In the first place, to assuage the concerns I am sure will soon be voiced by Adam C, let me state for the record that I will PROBABLY still be voting for John McCain in November. But GAWD! Is he doing everything humanly possible to make that decision as tough as possible?
The short answer is YES!
While I admit, I was not listening to his speech before the Los Angeles World Affairs Council live, I did hear enough excerpts to force myself to pull over to the side of the road until the red rage want away, and I could once again see straight enough to drive.
The "Straight-Talk Express" made what was billed as his first opportunity to outline his foreign policy -- the policy we can expect him to pursue once ensconced in the Oval Office. From the Los Angeles Times:
In a broad-ranging foreign policy speech, Sen. John McCain pledged today that, if elected, his administration's foreign policy would be based on cooperation with U.S. allies and he called for a league of democracies that could build "an enduring peace."
In remarks to the Los Angeles World Affairs Council, McCain cautioned that America's power and influence "does not mean we can do whatever we want whenever we want," and said U.S. leaders should not "assume we have all the wisdom and knowledge necessary to succeed."
"We need to listen to the views and respect the collective will of our democratic allies," McCain said before an audience of several hundred people in the ballroom of the Westin Bonaventure Hotel. "When we believe international action is necessary, whether military, economic or diplomatic, we will try to persuade our friends that we are right. But we, in return, must be willing to be persuaded by them."
While I admit, I myself have advocated a "League of Democracies" in a piece done both here at RedState and at The HinzSight Report, the organization as I envisioned it centered around American leadership, not the hat-in-hand pleading with the international community discussed by Sen McCain.
From that rather long article entitled The United Nations -- a Portrait of Failure, I closed with these thoughts.
The US then should set up another body, sort of a “coalition of the willing,” to borrow a term from this President, which is limited to demonstrably democratically elected governments. A good beginning might include, The US, Canada, Great Britain, France (with reservations), Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, India and Japan.
Unlike the United Nations, not all nations would be eligible for this coalition, but only those deemed worthy by the member nations. Other nations could apply for membership. In a few years, through United States leadership, Afghanistan and Iraq might well qualify.
The first order of business for this new Organization would be the war on terror; eliminating terrorist cells and states wherever they arise. This coalition of the democratic nations of the world, could and would act as “policeman of the world,” taking decisive action to stop mass murders and atrocities across the globe. They can do no worse than the failed United Nations, and can, in my opinion, probably do much better!
Given that either Obama or Hillary will turn US sovereignty over to the United Nations, further eroding out standing in the world -- I still must cast my vote with Sen McCain on this issue.
His speech today touched also on the detainee facility at Guantanamo Bay. As in the past, he still does not like it. He wants, in fact, to close the facility down. This is NOT a bone thrown to the Conservative base. In fact, I feel certain that this issue will be a big winner with moderate Democrats and Independents.
With that aim, he repeated his call for closing the detention center at Naval Air Station Guantanamo Bay in Cuba stating that the United States cannot subject suspected terrorists to torture or inhumane treatment, a stance that drew applause from the audience.
As I pointed out above, this is not a new position for the senator. Back in July, 2006 he told Fortune Magazine, in an interview:
"I'd like to say a few things about the Supreme Court's decision yesterday on the whole issue of detainees in Guantanamo Bay. The good news is that it has unstuck the process. The administration has been saying they were waiting [for the ruling.] The Court said two things: the court said they should be handled under the Unified Military Code of Justice.
The UMCJ does not guarantee all the rights [that the civilian court system does], but I think it's basically a fair system. The other was the admonition to adhere to the Geneva conventions. I'm not surprised by that either.
What I'm hoping is that we can start a hearing in the Armed Services Committee, and, as soon as we get back from our well-earned recess, we can push the issue forward.... Guantanamo has become a symbol around the world that is not good. I've always believed it was not the facility, but the lack of movement. [The fact that detainees are not getting their day in court.] You've got some bad guys in there, but you may also have some innocent people.
Oh yes, we need a Republican Presidential candidate who tells people that there are innocent people being held at Gitmo. This is helpful.
But, both Obama and Hillary would like to close that facility down as well, and probably confer Constitutional rights upon the detainees. I'm not entirely sure what Sen McCain intends to do with the detainees, but it cannot be any worse than the plans put forth by the Democrats. Still not enough difference to withhold my vote for McCain.
Probably the most frightening thing the good senator told his audience today was his fealty to the hoax of Manmade Global Warming. A true believer now, of the Goracle, from MarketWatch:
Presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain on Wednesday called for greater vigilance in combating global warming, saying that a successor to the Kyoto Treaty should be enacted.
McCain called for the U.S. to be good "stewards of our
planet," saying the treaty that U.S. has yet to ratify is necessary to preserve the Earth. A cap-and-trade system in which environmental credits are exchanged much like common stock is a system the Arizona senator said he favors."The risks of global warming have no borders," McCain said. "We and the other nations of the world must get serious about substantially reducing greenhouse gas emissions in the coming years or we will hand off a much-diminished world to our grandchildren."
So, it is not bad enough that Kyoto would cripple the US economy, setting us back decades while still giving a free pass to the largest polluters on the planet, India and China, now the good senator wants to go BEYOND Kyoto with an even more draconian agreement.
In this, he goes much further than his remarks of two years ago, when he told Fortune Magazine:
Finally, climate change is real.... The fact that we have not done more about it is a crime to our children and grandchildren.... I travel a lot around the world, usually at your expense, and [I've seen the effects of global warming.] I think we need to stop arguing whether it's happening.
Climate change is real, and we need to begin to start figuring out how we can reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The trick in my mind is to get business to see that reducing greenhouse emissions [is in their economic interest.] Lieberman's and my cap-and-trade legislation should have gotten more attention....
Nuclear power, in my view, is not only a viable, but a very important element in our effort to reduce our dependence on foreign oil... Let me remind you that the Europeans have moved forward long ago on nuclear power. It's a question of psychology not technology.
--snip--
...On Kyoto: we needed to have China and India. We're not going to sell Kyoto to the American people without China and India. On the issue of waste, I've always been in favor of re-processing. Yucca Mountain is the worst kind of [shameful situation.] We can't [put waste in their because] it's only good for 10,000 years? Now, I worry about the future, but God Almighty!
As on the other issues, Obama and Hillary are, if anything, worse than Sen McCain -- marginally!
As I stated at the top, is there ANY candidate who WANTS my vote for President? At the moment, THIS conservative is frustrated, conflicted and angry.
Best Not to Listen to McCain
by Spartan4Life
It took all of five minutes in his big speech on the economy to bring up climate change. Arrrggghhhh. Can't someone tell him that there are no "green collar" jobs.
I have said I think he only needs to be good, not great, to win this election. When I hear him speak, though, I worry that he can even muster good. He just does not inspire.
I have decided to tune him out so I won't get so angry that I won't vote for him.
I believe the only good that can come from a McCain presidency in the AGW arena is that he may initiate large scale use of nuclear power to acheive reduction of greenhouse gasses. If this were to be coupled with a transition to large scale electricfied rail transport we might accomplish something that is actually in our best interests.
I believe AGW is a hoax but large scale nuclear power generation would foster economic growth and reduce fossil fuel consumption and this would be a worthy goal even if it is the result of a liberal agenda.
I realize that the environmentalists are well aware of this path and will throw every phony arguement in its way, but mcCain has endorsed nuclear power.
We can hope
by Socrates
(which is not a plan) that the fine and wise people who run this country would try to find solutions to the two problems, one real and one not, which plague us, to wit, 1) Reliance on middle eastern oil and 2) global warming.
A solution to our reliance on foreign oil might include electric, pneumatic, coal diesel, and hydrogen powered cars, but will not ever include ethanol. A solution to global warming could happen this summer, if it follows the pattern set this winter and stays cool.
--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.
Not without 60 senators he won't!
by David Hinz
and he will suddenly find, as president that all those senators from the other side of the aisle who were so very eager to work with him as a senator will now call him a neo-conservative warmongering liar.
If it wasn't so predictable it would be fun to watch.
Will I be able to buy a hotrod train ?
by Joliphant
Can I get my train in red ?
Will the chicks dig it ?
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Rail transportation in the U.S. is a terrible idea.
by NightTwister
for passengers, that is. The country is simply too big to make it work.
Works great for moving coal & lumber.
"After two years in Washington, I often long for the realism and sincerity of Hollywood." -Fred Dalton Thompson
Of course I realize that GW is not a real issue, I said as much, but since most of those who propose it who also don’t believe it is real have their agenda, I simply wanted to tag my agenda (nuclear power generation) into the mix. I don’t have anything against your other solutions when they are market supported. (Someday some will be.) Of course the widespread availability of lower cost electricity will spur the use of battery powered hybrid type vehicles.
As far as rail transport, while I am a romantic about passenger travel, I was actually only refering to rail freight and commute passenger travel. For example, the 70 diesel trains that run on regular track between San Jose and San Francisco in California are a good case for electrification provided that there is enough of the juice to run the trains and not face periodic brownouts.
BTW, all the chicks dig red trains with narrow silver streaks.
America generally. He accepts the media CV that America has bullied allies and tortured illegal enemy combatants as a matter of policy at Gitmo.
McCain and the msm have never named even ONE perpetrator or victim of same at Gitmo.
He slanders the US.
Would McCain have followed France's lead and not have invaded Iraq?
no
So what is he about?
He is about 10 times better than Obama or Hillary.
Not saying much.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
All the effort made to reassure us
by jonlester
he'll be conservative enough, and then he goes and undoes it all in one speech.
EXACTLY my point
by David Hinz
I was starting to warm up to him again, like I did Waaaaay back in 2000 when I supported him. This speech was like a bucket of ice water.
If there's one gross miscalculation he's making,
by jonlester
it's the assumption that all the "independents" are more liberal than moderate Republicans. I thought McCain would at least remember the "Reagan Democrats."
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
But not getting any less true. [n/t]
by IL-Glock21
_____________________________________________
- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
5 5 5 n/t
by Joliphant
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
agreed this is a tempest in a teapot
by Doc Holliday
Anyone who has followed McCain's career for even a small amount of time would realize he is not into going along with the crowd.
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
and I am not reffering to being a Maverick
by Doc Holliday
McCain is not going to subordinate our policy to some guy in Brussels, it is not his style at all. If anything, he is calling out our allies to step up to the plate. The dirty little secret is we DO need allies, the world really is that screwed up!
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
heck, I and not even reFeRRing to it! -nt
by Doc Holliday
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
At least you aren't reefering to it n/t
by simpson316
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
who says i aint? cough cough :) -nt
by Doc Holliday
___________________________________________________________
Molon Labe!
Outstanding Point IJB....BTW...I can't help but wonder....Why Carrot Top?
You could have picked any other clown like Pauly Shore or Earnest, or even Larry the Cable Guy...yet you go right to Carrot top?...Hmmmm....is there anything we need to know about you??
LOL
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
LOL
by aceintx
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
small consolation in that I guess
by aceintx
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
exceptionalism that think before we agree with al qaeda and accuse Americans of torture that we have
PROOFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
None of this is new
by Adam C
These are the same positions he took during the primary where he won a plurality of Republican votes.
He's also pro-life, good on judges, for cutting taxes further, against government taking over health care, against government taking over mortgage markets and/or bailing out people who made dumb decisions, and staunch on pork/earmarks/spending.
It was all one package, good and bad. And the other candidates had good and bad. We have our package and its better than theirs.
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Yup
by Adam C
because for my entire voting life, I've been in the "best of two bad choices" situation. So it's hard for me to feel to bad about others being in that spot. It's nice to once actually believe in the candidate I support.
______________________________________
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I know
by Xraxnd Caracarn
Im slightly less screwed full stop.
And I would consider Kennedy’s, Sandra Day to be the very best from him pledge for Alitos and Thomas’s notwithstanding. But that’s light years ahead of Tribe.
every time McCain continues to second our enemy's claims of torture at Gitmo sans any evidence
that McCain still worships algoremmgwarming despite new evidence of global cooling
every time mccain insults Bush and America with undeservesblameamericafirstism
did mccain not see the french and german elections?
We cannot stay silent
when we hear barack's 20-year-pew-parked butt at the feet of a racist anti-american kook;
when we hear clinton lies; and
when we are insulted by mccain.
That something is not "new" doesn't mean its not news.
We are conservatives. There is nothing new under the sun. But the sad fact is that people, incl mccain still don't get it.
We will not be silent.
I am still voting for mccain with nose unobstructed.
I worship Jesus Christ, not any mccain.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
"higher level of anger"
by Adam C
I don't see it. He supported closing GITMO in the primary. He (and other Rs like Romney, Rudy, and Huck) believe global warming is occurred and partially man-made. And he has emphasized working with allies more (which is a rather popular view with most voters).
He's also stood resolute on the War when it was at its nadir in popularity and he still stands resolute. But perfection continues to be the bane of our ability to support the better candidate.
______________________________________
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Adam...He's saying we've been wrong for the last eight years and affirming every vile thing our enemies foreign and domestic have said of us.
We know this is nothing new for him! I was one of those screaming the loudest about it. Here's the rub...He needs us to vote for him...he needs to reassure those of us who want to support him that he's not everything we fear he is...I've been coming around to voting for him and have settled myself to the inevitability of it....and what does he do...he busts me in the jaw from left field...He announces a major foreign policy speech where it's assumed he will distinguish himself from the Democrats and stands up and echoes everything the Dems have said for the last 8 years!
If this is what we can expect for the next 9 months...we're in for a real warm and steaming pile of something being served up for the next four years!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
To be fair...
by IL-Glock21
I realize you can't stand some of his foreign policy views, but...
"...and affirming every vile thing our enemies foreign and domestic have said of us." (emphasis added)
Has no basis in fact.
"...and echoes everything the Dems have said for the last 8 years!" (emphasis added)
Has no basis in fact.
_____________________________________________
- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
OK...I'll echo "my girl Hillary" in reply
by aceintx
OK...I'll echo "my girl Hillary" in reply, I misspoke for the first time in 12 years....
Just kidding
Obviously I'm exaggerating for the purpose of making a point but saying we're guilty of torture...and saying we're imprisoning innocents at gitmo...and implying we've had a "go it alone" foreign Policy is awful close to my fish story!!!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
and since I hate condemnation of hyperbole...
by tadams1138
probably more than I hate hyperbole I might as well point out that "has no basis in fact" is innacurate. You probably should have said "is a gross exageration" or "is not accurate". Aceintx comments were not nonsense, they were just over the top.
And as a side essay: why I hate hyperbole condemnation -by tadams
Too many people (not sure if you were attempting it, Glock), have a tendancy to shoot down an otherwise reasonable argument or valid point based on the person arguing going perhaps a little too far. I've frequently seen it used by people who know of instances where my exageration is right, but because I exagerated they attempt to invalidate my argument and characterise my assertion as being completely wrong or insignificant. That is not a characteristic of an honest discussion/argument. That is a debate tactic used to make points and has no real place in a discussion/argument that is actually seeking Truth.
Nothing personal, Glock, but I'm just tired of seeing accusations of hyperbole without the honest support for what was was true about the hyperbole (if there was anything true about it).
That's all for now. Look forward to next week when I'll rant about people who ask stupid questions like "Can you even site one example of a Guiliani appointed judge making a bad judgment?" as if not finding one would prove that there weren't any or that finding one would prove that he appoints liberal judges consistently.
"Hey, I call 'em like I see 'em. I'm a whale biologist."
I experienced the same frustration
by Shaggy Dog
when I first started posting. There are plenty of bad faith debaters who just want to look for and quibble over the tiniest loose thread in whatever arguement you are making rather than acknowledge any bigger picture point.
But as annoying as those people are, they are not going away, all you can do is self-edit as much as possible before posting to minimize what they have to work with, and ignore the nitpickers when they do surface.
We're not asking for perfection....HI don't think having a candidate that doesn't agree with our enemies and give our political enemies a fat spiked mace to beat us over the head would be nice!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Precisely (n/t)
by Finrod
---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.
555
Better hope to
by swamp_yankee
555
Better hope to influence the debate now before its too late. It's better to demand people like McKinnon go before its too late. It's better to let McCain know conservative support is conditional before its too late.
It's better to try and talk some sense into McCain before headlines like "Soren Dayton Railroaded By The National Media / McCain Camp Sans Balls" become headlines like this "American Sovreignty And Economy Railroaded By Congress / McCain Camp Sans Balls"
It's worse than you think Swamp Yankee...
by aceintx
His appointees to the RNC aren't all that encouraging either. He's shown nothing but contempt for us up till now...and I don't expect much more from him going forward.
Check these Novak stories:
> McCain's Mistake
By Robert D. Novak
Saturday, March 22, 2008
MCCAIN'S LIBERAL
John McCain's team that is taking over the Republican Party has decided on Bobbie Greene Kilberg, a liberal Republican from Virginia long detested by conservatives, to run the party's national convention in St. Paul, Minn., in August.
Kilberg, as an aide to President George H.W. Bush in 1990, promoted White House overtures to gay activists. She won an internal power struggle over gay politics with fellow Bush assistant R. Douglas Wead, who was fired as White House liaison to religious conservatives.
When Kilberg appeared on television by McCain's side the night of Feb. 12 after he won the Virginia primary, her presence was resented by conservatives as a sign of contempt for them.
CEO at the GOP
By Robert Novak
March 08, 2008
WASHINGTON, D.C.—Conservatives and party regulars were not happy about the selection of Carly Fiorina to head the Republican National Committee’s “Victory 2008” campaign raising funds for the presidential election. She was one of the nation’s most visible CEOs before she was fired by Hewlett-Packard in 2005 for not generating enough profits.
Federal Election Commission records show Fiorina contributed nothing to the Republican Party the last eight years. Her only political giving was to Sen. John McCain’s presidential campaign—$2,100 in 2006 and $2,300 in 2007. Fiorina was at McCain’s side when he campaigned in the critical Michigan and Florida races.Fiorina has no standing in the conservative movement and has taken no position on the abortion question.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Ditto to the 200th power gamecock
by aceintx
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Given the choices in November
by David Hinz
We should be able to win with Democrat-Lite
The Democrats are the gift that keeps on giving, The question is...can McCain open the package?
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
"Good on judges"
by St. Louis Conservative
Does that mean he will appoint good judges like Alito and Roberts? Or "good judges" that will hold up McCain-Feingold and take the side of the ACLU on torture and Gitmo?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
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No shocker.
by IL-Glock21
"These are the same positions he took during the primary where he won a plurality of Republican votes."
The real big news story would be if he changed his positions from the ones that irritated the conservatives who didn't vote for him.
I can hardly blame people who are driven up the wall by his policy positions for complaining about it, but I don't understand all of these posts that claim that the same thing he touted before was some sort of new proof he is turning on them.
It's the same package as before with everything I liked and didn't like about him. Perhaps I'm a bit biased because he's a candidate I feel like I'm compromising the least on in a long time. If he had swung more to the conservatives who disliked him before I think I would have noticed (and complained) and the media would have had no shortage of flip-flop coverage about it. Never happened afaik.
Same ol' McCain.
_____________________________________________
- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
Agree
by ekevlar11
AdamC's writeups on McCain bring truth to the situation. He is a conservative. Not as conservative as many here would like, but overall a conservative. Just happens to go maverick on some issues.
And if he flip-flops...bad news. So, he does have to stick to his guns. Which means many of those here again will not be happy as they continue to nitpick him.
Erik
Can you say broken record Adam....
by aceintx
You sound like a broken record Adam. He's not even trying to act like one of us any more! As I predicted...He's got the nomination so we can all just go to hell!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Or at least refrain from putting words into the Senator's mouth. He didn't tell anyone to go to hell, the only time he's mention it is saying he would "chase Osama to the Gates of Hell."
More importantly, as noted above, none of these positions are new. He's not "moving to the middle" or "hating conservatives." He had a platform of views that were well known. Republicans nominated him, good and bad.
If tomorrow he becomes pro-choice, then I'd expect an avalanche of criticism and diaries (and your comments). But these are all views he expressed before. We knew what our choices were.
I'll stop being a broken record when Hinz and you do. But as long as you are bringing up the same criticisms, I'll bring the same responses.
Maybe if we had another candidate who appealed to Is, was serious about fighting pork (including his own party's pork), had the experience to lead a War, had a decent shot at winning, had a good record on judges, and had some credibility on small government issues, we could have had a decent primary. But we had an odd crowd of good but imperfect candidates. We picked one.
Harping on any alleged imperfections doesn't change the fact that we lucky to even have a chance in 2008. For everyone wishing Bush could just run again, recall the 30% approval rating. We'd be staring at a 60-40 election with Reagan-sized landslide written all over it.
Because of our good fortune we have the only candidate who 1) wholeheartedly supports our troops and mission in Iraq and 2) has a chance at winning.
______________________________________
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Going to hell isn't a quote....
by aceintx
First, telling conservatives to go to hell isn't a quote it's implied by hs speach and his actions.
Second, I didn't say this wasn't all known before...I was one of the only posters here who was saying he wasn't as strong on foreign policy as many at Red State were saying he was when the primaries were winding down and I was pretty soundly thrashed for saying it.
Third, as for avoiding threads about McCain...as you've never missed one to defend him and sing his praises, I find it hard to miss one to point out my problems with him, especially when he's made a speech like the one he made today.
You know I've toned it down and I have written a few, (granted not many), posts to my Diary that were at least charitable to McCain. I've said over and over again that I want to support him. Then he pulls stunts like this speech.
I'm here venting now because I heard his speech today, he did himself no favors with it. He has a problem with Conservatives. He's said so himself. I don't know why he insists on being so antagonistic towards us and insists on picking at the scab and rubbing salt in it. Maybe you can find out and get back to me?
As for:
Harping on any alleged imperfections doesn't change the fact that we lucky to even have a chance in 2008.
If Republicans have a chance this year it's not because of McCain, it's because the Democrats are in the process of destroying themselves. If anything, McCain is doing everything he can to ensure the damage they do to themselves won't hurt them.
Finally,
I find myself in the odd position of defending Hinz. As I remember, Hinz was one of those riding the BAN wagon, (Yes BAN, not a spelling error), when everyone had their knives out wanting to ban me. I don't recall him being all that rabidly anti McCain all this time...but I could be wrong.
Bottom line...McCain made a speech today, many of us have a problem with the things he had to say. I've picked at you a little on this thread and I apologize for what it's worth and hope there are no hard feelings.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
"Then he pulls stunts like this speech."
by Adam C
This isn't a stunt. It's a speech on foreign policy and it will happen again. Those are his views and have been his views.
Hinz isn't rabidly anti-McCain. But he (like most posters) doesn't like it when someone becomes disruptive. I'm trying my best to prod you away from becoming disruptive rather than watching the wolves circle again.
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I'm trying my best to prod
by aceintx
I'm trying my best to prod you away from becoming disruptive rather than watching the wolves circle again.
The above is much appreciated. As to the wolves circling again...so be it...I don't get the purge mentality of some here when someone dissents from the approved orthodoxy here. I've said it before...If McCain and his supporters can't stand up to the criticisms and deal with the dissidents to his candidacy, he shouldn't be in politics.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Chase Obama or Osama?
by MNConservative
Just wondering... not sure there's a good reason to chase Obama.
good catch
by Adam C
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And once in position he'll be able to veto pork
by ekevlar11
That he has stood against - energy bill, transportation bill, etc.
Erik
Be careful Adam C
by RottDawg
if the senator sees that Obama remark up there, you could suffer the same fate as Soren... ;)
Heh.
by Adam C
I will say that I have never worked or volunteered for the campaign in any capacity. Politics is a hobby for me, not a career. :)
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Nothing new
by Darin H
I don't like that stuff either, but this isn't anything new from Senator McCain.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Wow
by Darin H
I have no words for that.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
substance over procedure - what matters is truth
by gamecock
lies must be challenged every time they are repeated
or the historical news will be that we surrendered
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Presidents are flawed humans
by Darin H
just like the rest of us, and are susceptible to error.
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Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
I blame it ultimately on the press and campaign finance "reform." The new rules that require 24/7 fundraising would have scared off even Reagan.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
I blame the open primaries...
by General Confusion
I blame the open primaries allowing "independents" and "moderates" (aka Democrats) to select our candidate.
Ultimately they will return to the Democrat party from wince they came once the general is underway.
Lastly starting the primaries with liberal states didn’t help much either.
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
"liberal states"
by Adam C
Like SC? IA? NH? MI? FL? What the most "liberal" of the early states was a Kerry +3 state. I count 4 swing states and a bright red one... and McCain won the bright red one in a closed primary.
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don't be disingenuous
by David Hinz
the actual order was IA, NH, MI, FL, SC...which puts the bright red state DFL! The Dem and Ind crossover vote in all four of those other earlier states was well documented. By the SC primary, we had already begun to lose candidates, and the momentum had been built -- built on non-conservative-non-Republican voters.
Call me crazy...
by IL-Glock21
But ignoring Iowa since it was a caucus state...
NH: Was a tie between two candidates on the strictly Republican vote (within 1% for McCain and Romney).
MI: Which had the highest crossover voting due to the Dem primary not counting there and that State *didn't* go to McCain, among Republicans or generally. It was a blue state that went to Romney.
SC: Which was actually the next in line was a definite red State where there was another tie in the Republican vote (within 1% for McCain and Huck).
Florida: The first closed primary went to McCain... and self-identified Republicans (not just registered per the requirement) tied evenly between McCain and Romney.
From there McCain tended to dominate most of the primaries from then on.
By Super Tuesday one could see a pattern among States McCain was winning... he was winning larger margins of self-identified Republicans and tying with Romney among self-identified conservatives.
Them's the facts. Did the independents and moderates and other crossovers help? Certainly. And they are very likely to help in the general as well given the polling trends over the last few months.
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- "Make love not war? Real men can do both!"
Iowa you can at least argue about because it's an evenly partisan state.
But NH is now one of the most liberal states in the Union! And it's GOP electorate is more liberal than the GOP electorate in even blue states such as CA. It's a *joke* that NH is our first Primary!
The first "reform" we should institute as a Party for the 2012 election is to dump NH *way down* the list of Primaries.
SC would be a decent first choice. Or some place like MO. Or even AZ or NV. But no way in heck should NH be our first Primary anymore!
(Threadjack over...)
Maybe I missed something???
by aceintx
McCain won IA?
I thought Romney won Michigan?? My memory is not what it used to be but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong!
:>)
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Iowa?
by jonlester
This really is a fast-paced business if we've forgotten Mike Huckabee already.
Read the post
by Adam C
and think before spouting off.
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Operation Chaos unspoken goal; close all primaries!!! n/t
by Tim Schieferecke
Tim Schieferecke
The short answer, is no.
by scottbomb
I doubt McCain cares what conservatives think of him. He knows he's already got our vote because we really have no other choice.
I believe....
McCain won the nomination because of all the centrist democrats/independents that voted for him. The rest of us (most Republicans) voted for other candidates (those of us who actually got the opportunity to vote for our first candidate of choice).
Had the democrats put up some better candidates (that aren't so far to the left) Hillary and Obama would have been finished a long time ago and McCain wouldn't be our nominee because the true Republicans would have had more of an effect in our own race.
He can take comfort knowing he's got our vote because we keep dutifully keep coughing it up every time a Nixon/Ford/GHW Bush/Dole/McCain get's shoved down our throats.
I've gotten off the "Send a message" bandwagon...but I'm not sure how much more of this I can stand!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
The Sore Loser stuff is wearing thin
by Adam C
No one "shoved" McCain down your throat any more than W was shoved down our throat in 2000. You lost the primary. It happens. Voters choose the guy with the military background, with the experience, without the record of tax hikes and liberal economic policy, and with a record of fighting Big Government and earmarks.
How much more of what? McCain repeated his same positions. If that upsets you, then stop watching the news. I guarantee you he will do that again. He'll do it on the War, on Gitmo, on judges, on earmarks, on taxes, on AGW, on other foreign policy issues, etc.
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Sore Looser is a canard
by aceintx
I have HUGE policy problems with him...it's not about winning or losing for me!
To say otherwise is simply an attempt to dismiss me and my opinions!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
aceintx and Adam C
by simpson316
I think you guys need to self-impose a time out for posting to each other. You always seem to devolve to the point where someone gets pissy.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
Who me???
by aceintx
I like Adam...We disagree but I like the guy!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Yes
by simpson316
Seeing you two at each others' throats gets very tiresome.
You don't agree.
Let's leave it there.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
LOL...I'm not at Adam's throat any more than he's at mine. We disagree...I've learned a lot from talking and debating him and have no animosity whatsoever toward him. I hope the feeling is mutual from him.
I won't be censored and I don't believe I should be asked to any more than I would expect Adam to be were our positions reversed.
I also know he feels the same way and has said as much.
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
Ok are you the lazarus with the wound ?*
by Joliphant
Or the one without ?
*Star Trek TOS EP: The Alternative Factor
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
LOL
by aceintx
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
just to note
by Adam C
I'm pretty much the only reason ace isn't banned right now. And I'm going to continue to try to save him from himself on that front. It seems to be McCain threads where he is tempted to be disruptive. In other areas, he's been a good contributor.
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Can we address the destructive accusation?
by aceintx
Can we address the destructive accusation? I've never intended to be destructive.
I don't see how pointing out your candidates flaws is destructive. As I've said before, you can't fix a problem if you can't identify it. It's easy to close your eyes to obvious problems and act like they don't exist. I've done it with Bush Tom Delay and our Republican Congresses since 1994. Ignoring the problems is a large reason for 2006.
Just the way I see it!
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
disruptive, not destructive
by Adam C
and the difference is important.
"Ignoring the problems is a large reason for 2006."
This we agree on. In fact, it's a large part of why I choose McCain in the primary. He was the only one with a record of fighting Rs who are corrupt earmarkers.
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See simpson we can be agreeable...LOL
by aceintx
See simpson we can be agreeable...LOL
He was the only one with a record of fighting Rs who are corrupt earmarkers.
We can agree on this as well...This alone almost makes him pl,atable....but not quite
:>)
--"Faith is a free work to which no one can be forced. Nay it is a Divine work, done in the Spirit."--Martin Luther
See, you agree to a point, then
by simpson316
"This alone almost makes him pl,atable....but not quite"
you just had to get that "but-monkey" in there.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
In the immortal words of Shakespeare....
by aceintx
In the immortal words of Shakespeare, "To thine own self be tru
It's truly depressing. n/t