How Do You Spell Defeat?
Ask House Democrats
By absentee Posted in Congress | Defeatocrats | Democrats | General Petraeus | War — Comments (26) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The appearances before Congress by General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker this week were marked less by the sober forthrightness of the two men than by Democrat grandstanding. Tuesday’s Senate hearings were best summed up by Sen. Joseph Lieberman: "As I hear the questions and the statements today, it seems to me that there's a kind of 'hear no progress in Iraq, see no progress in Iraq, and most of all, speak of no progress in Iraq.'"
On Wednesday the hearings were before the House Armed Services Committee. Rep. Ike Skelton (D-MO) set the Democrat tone in his opening remarks. "We should not begin this hearing without recalling how we got here," he said. "Iraq was invaded on incorrect information. The turbulent aftermath following the initial military victory was not considered, despite warnings of the aftermath, including two such warnings from me. Now we're in our sixth year of attempting to quell this horrendous aftermath." The remainder of his opening speech was heavy on the horrendous, as he invoked failures and Bin Laden to paint a bleak picture of an impotent America, an intransigent Iraq, a neglected Afghanistan, and a stubborn President.
"Things haven't changed that much in Iraq," was the ever-present message. House Democrats piled on a theme of "No Hope, No Change" in contrast to their leading Democrat candidate, who for his part on Tuesday was keen on pointing out that there is “still violence in Iraq.”
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) took the hopelessness theme in a different direction by outlining how defeat should necessarily follow from success. She started with a little show-and-tell display of her souvenir photos from her visit to Iraq, during which she made the opaque observation that Iraqi children didn't wear American military uniforms, carry weapons, or generally do other army guy stuff, and also that there was a lot of trash in Iraq. Eventually she happened upon a line of questions which made it clear that she somehow thought the pictures would lead up to a "gotcha" moment. The exchange that followed was a painful bit of theater:
Gen. Petraeus: "Absolutely."
Rep. Lee: "There's been a democratic election?"
Gen. Petraeus: "Correct."
Lee: "Al Qaeda, to your knowledge, is an amoeba. It's free flowing, it may be in Iraq, it may be in Afghanistan. Is that not true?"
Gen. Petraeus: "It is certainly in Iraq. It is less in Iraq than it was a year ago."
Rep. Lee: "But it, it, it finds itself in other places?"
Gen. Petraeus: "Not easily. Again, it has to find a place where ..."
Rep. Lee: "You, you would suggest that it is not in Afghanistan and ..."
Gen. Petraeus: "I didn't say that, I'm not ..."
Rep. Lee: "Well that's my question. Does it find itself in other places? Al Qaeda."
Gen. Petraeus: "Certainly, certainly. Al Qaeda in fact is throughout the region of the Middle East, it's in the ..."
Rep. Lee: "With that in mind, let me, let me say, General, that I frankly believe that we are operating without authority. The 2002 resolution has been complete. The military has completed its task. I would declare it a military success and I would ask that you convey to the President that we now bring our troops home."
This was not the only messenger assignment for our top Iraq officials that day. Ambassador Crocker was asked to warn the Iraqi Parliament that after December, America really wouldn't have any authority to remain in country any longer.
The question on nearly every Democrat's lips, and in fact a few Republicans, was how to identify success in Iraq. General Petraeus answered this question again and again in the same way, suggesting there was a complex calculus involved in determining when and how troops can be withdrawn from particular areas.
Rep. Lynn Woolsey (D-CA) was particularly irritated when pressing the General for an itemized list and future minute-by-minute screenplay of withdrawal from Iraq. The General was again providing his vague process overview when Woolsey interrupted, saying, "But then, General, I mean you've told us this, so I've heard it, and we've all heard this. You must be basing it on some numbers of what would it take to be safe in bringing our troops home, what it’s going to cost to bring our troops home, what it'll cost to be involved in reconciliation and capacity-building within Iraq. Where do we get those numbers? Is it available to the public?"
The General replied that "It's not arithmetic, Congresswoman. As I mentioned yesterday, this is more akin to calculus than it is to arithmetic. It's more akin to the political-military calculus that the ambassador described earlier, I think, in this hearing today, and it is the battlefield geometry."
The General was acutely aware of frustration from the Committee, whether real or theatrical. "Look, again, we very much hear the frustration," he said. "Those of who have been at this for a long time obviously want the war to end as much anybody else, perhaps maybe more. It's sometimes said the biggest peace activists are those who, of course, are actually down-range risking it all; But what we want to do is come home the right way without jeopardizing the gains we've fought to achieve and achieving the important national interest that we have."
In his militarily forthright way, the General identifies the clearest line of demarcation between his point of view and those who would have us withdraw immediately. The surge, as Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-CA) pointed out in his opening remarks, has "by all metrics" been a success. Violence is down and security is up. Iraqi troops and government have had to "face bullets," and haven’t run. The General and the Ambassador testified that taking America away from the Iraqis too soon will jeopardize those gains, and our own national interest.
Out on the House floor Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) summed up the Democrat talking points. "The President's representative from the military is on Capitol Hill urging us to continue to stay in Iraq. Telling us to wait, don't leave. What are we waiting for? Until the cost of the war reaches six trillion dollars? So that our American economy goes totally bust? So that we don't have any more money for education or health care or housing? What are we waiting for, for the casualties to get to ten thousand, twenty thousand deaths of our service men and women. What are we waiting for, for American to stand alone against the world?"
The Democrat question of the day was one they were answering themselves. How do you define success, they ask. There is no success, they answer.
It seems the Democrats’ question is rhetorical. Perhaps they should instead ponder a very real question: How do you define defeat? General Petraeus, Ambassador Crocker, and the Iraqi people know the answer to that one. So does Iran. House Democrats ought to be intimately familiar with the definition … they’ve been announcing American defeat for six years.
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"Best. [insert thing here]. Ever." is a Moe Lang saying ever?
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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater
...as enabling political reconciliation.
In as much as that hasnt occured, the surge is a tactical victory that has thus far failed to achieve its strategic objective.
that is a tactic that hasn't achieved it strategic objective either. We better just withdraw from Washington, DC.
Wait! That is actually a good idea!
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
achieved their strategic objectives as well--they'd better get on with the withdrawing, too. This line of reasoning works really well with a whole bunch of situations, dudn't it?
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/933bmt...
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
Except that most of America sees The Weekly Standard as "the news" as you may consider something on Al Jazeera as "the news."
I admitedly hadnt realized the political situation had progressed that far.
Here's my question. While what defeat looks like is obvious, and admitedly difficult to stomach, it has not been articulated to my satisfaction what victory looks like.
How will we know when the gains of the surge are sturdy enough that the violence will not spike upon our departure? How will we know when the political reconciliation has progressed to the point that our departure will not result in renewed civil war? So long as the war's costs and objectives remain ambigious we are destined to continue these cycles of unproductive debate.
The President and Senator McCain should clearly articulate what victory looks like and what is a worthwhile sacrifice to achieve it. Senator Obama and Senator Clinton should clearly state why they believe the costs of the war superceede the costs of defeat.
Its regretable that our political discourse has regressed to the point that this type of debate is unlikely.
So has why it is worthwhile to achieve it.
You have not been listening. Multiple posters on this site have attempted to do so and you continue to stick your fingers in your ears.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
See responses to your posts.
I'll do no more work than that. I do not wish to continue this circular argument.
Fighting for conservatism one day at a time.
1. We should have significant military forces in Iraq for probably the next 30 years at a minimum. We should move the armor and virtually all Army and Marine combat units out of Europe and Japan and base them in Iraq.
The US military, in force, should stay in the region for exactly the same reason we were in Europe for 60 years. The Democrats, and some who post repeatedly here, are simply too stupid to understand the concept of having our military in-theater as a deterrant against Iran, Syria, etal.
2. We should be directly involved in the fighting until the Iraqi army/police can successfully quell the violence. If it takes six months, great If it takes another six years, so be it.
3. In case you've missed it, and I'm certain Porker has, Islamic radicals respond only to one thing: force. If we pull out before they are defeated, and I mean totally humiliated, we will pay again as we did for the fecklessness of Carter and Clinton, both of whom repeated showed a complete lack of will to finish the job. You can lay the WTC's smoldering ruins at their feet, they repeatedly showed cowardice when strength was in order.
4. So when will we have achieved victory? When Iraq looks like Germany or Japan and the ME looks like Europe. In other words, peaceful nations willing to settle disputes by negotiations not terrorism.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
In reference to #4, let's add when everyday is a holiday, Sunday comes twice a week, and there's a Walgreens on every corner. A day when oil flows freely for anyone to partake. Iraqis will be singing to Americans, "come on people now, smile on your brother........" Oh, what a glorious day that will be.
That significant improvement in that part of the world is possible ?
Or what ?
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Nevertheless, we're in the middle. I don't have an answer Joliphant. Unfortunately, this administration doesn't seem to have one either. All I'm seeing is time buying with a warning that bailing will be an abject failure. Once the next administration does bail, the present one that got us into this and has no clue as to how to get us out, can say "told you so".
I see a world where WMD is getting cheaper and cheaper. A world where criminal organizations may be able to afford them. A world with regions aflame because they have been designed to be that way.
So we didn't build the ME into the nightmare it is, we also didn't do much to stop it from happening. No matter where the blame is its our problem. If Iraq got a nuke it would have been a giant problem. If Iran gets a nuke its even worse.
Biological, Chemical and in a few years new technologies are making other forms of WMD even cheaper and easier to obtain.
When we built Littleboy and Fatman, we were the only nation that could attempt the project and it was a herculean effort. The Russians took 4 years longer than us and that was with the Rosenbergs, Fuchs et al giving them the research they needed. Now countries that don't have functional governments are attempting it.
We are being preemptive on a grand scale we can only hope we succeed if we don't the consequences aren't pleasant.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson
"How will we know when the gains of the surge are sturdy enough that the violence will not spike upon our departure?"
Come on now, didn't you read "the news" above? Kagan said it himself:
"Attacks against Sadrist positions in Basra are the start of an assault on the last bastions of militia control of local security in Iraq."
Now if only I could figure out if 'last bastions' comes before or after 'final throes' in the timeline for those who don't believe in timelines.
Sorry...missed the Reply to This. Last comment was directly above.
but I can't tell if your agreeing with me or mocking me!
Apparently- I received my one "warning" for the same offense this week.
The left-wing blogs went nuts over Biden's questioning of Admiral Crocker, supposedly "proving" that Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. The liberals are portraying this week's hearings as CHECK MATE against Bush and the war on terror.
Au Contraire. To see how Biden is completely failing concerning the Iraq war (but the MSM is flacking for Biden anyway) take a look at:
http://www.TheBidenQuiz.com/page18.html
continuing through page 22


Sheila Jackson Lee is one of the dumbest people in America. Having up up there grilling General Petraeus, well, what can we say?
Pure Genius. To adapt a Moe Lane saying:
Best. Election Season. Ever.
Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J