Redstate

Like you big-boy guys, I view the tags as kind of their own lyrical language - you and Moe and Erick seem to have alot of fun with it. It'll be fine the way it is...

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

I'm gonna miss Dubya. I'm an unrepentant Bushbot. :)

/I don't mind waiting a few years to be told I was right

------------
~ Beth ~

Don't try to over sell him to people who know better.

Just take our support for what it is: The overwhelming desire to not have a socialist or outright marxist for our next president.

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

If you want to argue he's not a conservative, then you're starting the argument. There's no reason people shouldn't be able to argue that a pro-life, pro-marriage, pro-troops, never-voted-for-a-tax-increase, good on judges, good on spending, anti-earmark, anti-corruption R is a conservative.

Maybe it's a debatable proposition, but trying to just assume he is not and everyone has to agree with you is not right. And it's not being "sore" to fight back against what you think is a wrong description.

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principals. I agree, on the whole he is a conservative, it's just that "maverick" side of him that gets to me.

He keeps doing things that make me oscillate between love and hate for the guy.

As I said, don't try to over sell him. You've made the sale, move on before you induce buyers remorse.

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

But when there is a comment or a diary that is "McCain sucks, look here" I will respond. If there is a "McCain is a liberal" diary I will respond. If there is a "I can't bring myself to support a squish" I will respond. If there is a "gang of 14 means he loves Justice Stevens' jurisprudence" comment, I will respond.

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to respond to those in the same way. They are not helpful in keeping Hillary or Obama out of the White House.

But when you are offered peace with a large group of FredHeads on a plate, please don't tell us "no deal" and "get in line and shut up".

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

"get in line and shut up"

Who says that? I responded to the provocative comment "Don't try to over sell him to people who know better."

I said I'm not overselling him. I'm pointing out his conservative views. And I will continue to do so when people say things like "I know better, he's not conservative."

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There are MANY areas where I don't think McCain acts in a conservative manner. I won't bring them up if you quit trying to tell me he is the complete and utter conservative. He isn't. Unless you can do time travel and change all those things, you aren't going to convince me otherwise.

BUT, he's going to make a FAR better president than Clinton or Obama. They are the enemy here. Not you, not me and not McCain.

Now can we have peace?

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Sure. But when people say "McCain is no conservative," I will respond. Because that's my reading of this "olive branch." When people poke, we will respond.

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"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

And then in a comment that I responded to, a person said "Don't try to over sell him to people who know better."

So, as always, I was responding to someone. And I will continue to do so. While we're talking about violations of the "deal" here's another commenter saying that Democrats choose our nominee this year. Looks like this "deal" isn't going to stick.

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Brian should have left it as "Don't try to over sell him." He should have left off the "to people who know better". As far as the commenter in the other thread, I believe he overgeneralized what he was trying to say. McCain benefited from open primaries and the fact that the conservative vote what split between McCain, Romney, Huckabee, Thompson.

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

but the first was of the family of "we're better than you" and the second was of the family "your guy stole it"

My point is that most of the stuff this diary doesn't like is in response to those kinds of comments (and diaries).

I have never written a Shut Up and Get In Line diary. I have responded to a lot of "McCain sucks and here's why... again" diaries. And I will continue doing so.

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Obviously we're not. We lost. But....

You are selling a product. John McCain. That's fine, he's a pretty good fella. But set our expectations of what we'll get from the product correctly so we won't be disappointed.

If you oversell a product and promote features that aren't apparent, then you upset the customer and they cancel the sale. Sell the features he has and I'll happily play along.

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

And I will say again that I'm not overselling. I have researched at length his record on judges, taxes and abortion. He will be pro-life, great on judges, and has never supported a tax increase. He supports our troops abroad and would never abandon them or their mission. He supports school choice, personal retirement accounts, a smaller government and he opposes earmarks and the unethical pork-barreling in congress.

That's him. That's his record and his platform. That's not "over selling." That's telling you the rest of the story that Rush and Hannity like to forget and leave out.

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You won't get an argument about any of that and it's the reason I don't feel bad about supporting him now even though he was something like my 5th choice.

He's a good guy. Sell that!

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

Adam, I don't think the "shut up and get in line" complaint was aimed at you...if it were I'd jump to your defense...We've taken our shots at each other and said som unfair things about each other but I can't say you fit the "Shut up and get in line" mold.

That having been said...there are those here that have the "My guy won nya nya nya nya nya" attitude and never stop saying "shut up and get in line" or "support McCain with your money and time or if you don't you have no place at the table if he loses."

That's is who that was aimed at and they know who they are so don't take it to heart.

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

I think our fundamental difference is that you still don't understand - although EPU said it fairly well. McCain may vote conservatively at times (a majority of the time?), his positions may be conservative most of the time, he may govern conservatively, but he is not a conservative.

Conservatism is not policies or positions, it is principle and philosophy. Fred understood this, and lived it in his campaign.

Voting for lower taxes is a conservative position. Opposing taxes whenever possible *because* the insidious effect that they have on personal property and personal liberty is conservatism.

Opposing Roe V. Wade is a conservative position. Believing that R v. W is bad law because it degrades the checks and balances built into our system between the branches AND the levels of government is conservatism.

The biggest concern I have with McCain is that he may take positions we can back, or he may not, and without a core of conservatism, we never know for sure until it happens.

No, I think he probably understands perfectly. I'll let him speak for himself, but I'd say that this is the exact problem. You've created a game we can't win because it's almost entirely subjective. You can never really know someone's motives. It's even more difficult in politics then it is in other realms of life.

The game you've created here gives so-called "true conservatives" carte blanche to say anybody isn't a conservative based on almost purely subjective and speculative means.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

The problem is you are thinking in terms of winners and losers. You feel that conservative is good, non-conservative is bad, and then define conservative to match what you want and call it good.

I am doing no such thing. Conservatism as I use it is a system, not a vote. It is the ideal that brought this country from a handful of hicks on the new continent to the greatest economic, technological superpower in the world. It is the ideal.

That said, it is not an insult from me to say someone doesn't match that measure of conservatism. Very few do, even Fred did not match it perfectly. Our nominee does not match that, and I can't imagine how anyone could argue that. That's ok, we can all live with that, and that doesn't mean we can't be happy with him as the President. On the other hand, there is no reason to say good is good enough and all it a day.

John McCain is a lot of things, on balance more good than bad, but he is not a conservative as those great lights listed by EPU understood and defined it.

But the idea that this "compromise" includes not being able to have that difference of opinion is condescending. I think McCain's instincts are quite conservative and that includes the anti-revolutionary part of conservatism that is not a policy position at all. And I'm not going to stop responding to people who say "McCain is no conservative."

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Seems we're the ones being told to "shut up and get in line" when it comes to McCain being a conservative. He is, and I won't.

"If all men were just, there would be no need of valor."
- Agesilaus

Thank you Hooah Mac, I think you've provided the clearest description yet of what may be underlying some of the differences between the two sides on this issue. Perhaps there is ground here for reconciliation? Perhaps the Fredheads can concede that the majority of McCain's positions are conservative, and in that sense he could be called a small "c" conservative? And perhaps the McCainiacs can concede that McCain, while he is a man of integrity and conviction, is not guided in all things by a capital "C" Conservative philosphy? Could we all agree to this?
--
"'You come of the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve,' said Aslan. 'And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth. Be content.'" -- C.S. Lewis' "Prince Caspian"

I would posit that Fredheads had long ago already conceded that McCain indeed holds many conservative positions, but I'm willing to shore up that position, emphasize that we agree, if the others will do the thin you asked of them.

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

That you think he's a conservative and we don't...We won't convince you otherwise and you won't convince us so let's just let a sleeping dog lie...OK?

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

Here is my analogy for explaining the difference in conservatism as practiced by Fred Thompson, John McCain, assorted RINOs, and the Obamas/Clintons of the world.

I liken the TrueConservative to the loyal and faithful spouse, who took a marriage vow of fidelity and has remained true to those vows, regardless of time, distance, separation, sickness. This is your FredHead conservative. Straight down the line on all the issues.

Now the McCain version of conservative is like the husband who has taken that same vow but invokes the 100 mile rule -- what happens 100 miles from home the wife will never know. Now if you can only keep the spouse from traveling you might make out okay, but some how that spouse keeps accepting jobs that require varying degrees of travel.

The RINOs -- well they don't even have a 100 mile rule. They took the vows all right but they just don't understand the concept of fidelity -- so it doesn't matter if it they are across the country or at the neighbor’s house --- they are un-phased players.

Now the liberal wrote their own vows so they skipped the fidelity part completely because their life motto is what ever makes them feel good regardless of the cost or damage to anyone else.

Now me -- I am not just a FredHead -- but a FredHeart. As I explained to one of my fellow SC volunteers when our fingers were cramping from all of the calling for Fred that while I wanted with all my heart for Fred to win I would never be disappointed in supporting his campaign. My support wasn't just based upon supporting Fred Thompson the candidate, I was working for the set of conservative principles (TrueConservative) that he represents and that I follow and believe to my core.

Now before anyone goes off the deep end and accuses me of some accusation of infidelity -- this is an analogy folks. McCain is not 100% faithful to core conservative principles.

Forever FredHead and FredHeart

M Penny

It's the condescension that FredHeads are the top of pile and McCain is a step below (or worse). That's the same attitude that is pervasive in these threads.

It's the idea that good people are "true" and McCain people are less than that.

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I'm being serious here - Adam I REALLY want to put the spears aside - Perhaps if I add to the requirements of my side to stop with the condescension?

Honestly, you KNOW we feel that way (morally superior, etc), and nothing's going to change that.

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

don't tell me you don't use the same tone when you are reeling off McCain's list of conservative checkpoints, and openly referring to people who don't buy it as proof that he's conservative, as ignoramuses.

Seriously, meet me part way here.

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

First, I do not speak for anyone but myself. All of my argumentative comments come as responses to anti-McCain comments and diaries.

Second, it is that feeling of "moral superiority" that leads to most of these fights. So if that isn't going away, I don't think any kind of "olive branch" is going to fix it.

Really, it comes down to the fact that right now we are in Win the Election phase. If you can't help McCain, then find someone you can help. Write about them, donate to them, raise their profile.

The frustrating thing to those of us trying to win right now is that if Fred had won the nomination we wouldn't be posting anti-Fred diaries all the time. We wouldn't be making a list of things we disliked and repeating them over and over. We wouldn't be creating insulting little icons to use.

So it's tough as a team player to realize the rules are different for you. You're willing to support the nominee. But your allies will only do so if it's their guy or someone with their exact views.
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"So it's tough as a team player to realize the rules are different for you. You're willing to support the nominee. But your allies will only do so if it's their guy or someone with their exact views."

That's at the very least a false generalization. Most of us are willing to support the nominee - see the post I wrote a couples months back on the topic. On the other hand, that doesn't give the nominee or his supporters license to dismiss or ridicule our issues and concerns. You can't deny that has happened. Also, please take care in lumping everyone critical of John McCain into our pile, because most of the bad actors aren't ours either.

No, I do not believe that it is my side's condescension is the source of the bulk of these fights. Mostly we're not in battle mode until either (1) McCain veers off the reservation, ala NCGOP, or (2) people get to tagging McCain as conservative.

And I believe I have laid out here above, in a way that is frankly gentle, why my side gets their backs up over that. You spout a list of policy positions, I spout core principles (and can spout out my own list of countering policy positions that are decidedly NOT conservative).

The fact that you are touchy about people calling McCain "not conservative" is somewhat mysterious to me. Back him all you want, really, I've NEVER tried to convince you otherwise. But your list of policy positions and his 82 ACU rating do not make a conservative.

When you can read Russell Kirk's essays, and honestly say "I see McCain in those", THEN you got something. Personally I'd say you got something in your eye, but that's just argumentative. But I sure the hell don't see him there. As you can see by the comments, I'm not alone.

It's frustrating to you that we still have this problem at RedState. Well, guess what, it's frustrating to me. It gets easier when you choose some expedience. Surrender JUST A LITTLE GROUND to the Fredheads and don't wave the "McCain is conservative" flag. My side has already surrendered enough (see the proposal), and I don't offer the term that we will cease calling him "not conservative". I proposed above, and now, that we won't WEAR IT OUT.

I hesitate to say "take it or leave it", but I think it's the best offer you're going to get.

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

"...if Fred had won the nomination we wouldn't be posting anti-Fred diaries all the time." This doesn't carry much weight with those of us who remember the post-convention antics of the Rockafeller/Scranton repubs in '64, and how the John Warner types treated Ollie after he was the official GOP senate candidate. Seems to me that conservatives generally gripe a bit, then settle down after the convention and work for the party. Moderates have been known to work actively for the defeat of the candidates.

That won't happen this time. (Paulbots excepted.)

stop with the condescension, the mocking posts, upside down banners and the halo of "true conservatism" placed upon the fred head's heads..

McCainiacs will cease the endless arguments about McCain's conservatism, so long as Fred Heads stop their arguments that he is not and acknowledge that the only hope for conservatism in the white house in 2008 lies with John McCain.

FredHeads are good or on top only if you equate being 100% faithful to conservative principles as the ideal. Your ideal may not be along the some lines. Some might like to dip their pen in other ink on occasion and still feel "good" about it.

M Penny

One minor quibble. Fred lost a bit of fidelity once, IIRC.
It was a "yea" vote for McCain Feingold.
He did however repent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...

It violates the terms of the peace deal we're trying to work out. 8*)

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

That might fall into the category of kissing the office hottie at the Christmas party when someone else put mistletoe over your head.

First, FDT acknowledges that it did not accomplish what he hoped (Clintons & China cash), and second he admitted it was a mistake. McCain can't wait for next year's Christmas party because he won't admit it was a bad idea.

M Penny

I did concede that he had repented.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...

I mean, yah, obviously he's the only true conservative, he found it lying on the floor a few months before he started running for President!

Do I think this is fair? No. But it's no less fair then a lot of the charges leveled at McCain.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

original, and I agree with them.

I guess I'm not only a FredHead but a FredHeart, too. ;-)

And I have another raft of McCain spams to delete unread. LOL.

You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

"agreeing to disagree".

To be concise, I basically have a Matalin/Carville marriage in reverse. We are both passionate about our political beliefs, and are diametrically opposed on at least several issues that we both believe are crucial for the nation. That being said, there are things that are more important to both of us, namely being the maintainance of a healthy happy household for our daughter and the maintaining of what is a loving, respectful, happy marriage. How is this possible? Simple. Neither of us begins conversations on issues that we know we can not come to agreement on, and perhaps more importantly, we trust that the other holds their beliefs in good faith.

So. . .what is my point? That the priority for (practically) everyone on this site is to see that John McCain become the next President of the United States. Some of us can not believe that this is what our choices have come down to. Some of us think that McCain is the best man for the office. Many of us fall somewhere in between. As political issues are peripheral to my happy marriage, the issue of whether John McCain is (a) conservative is peripheral to the goal of electing him as our 44th President. So. . .let's agree to disagree on that issue.

How can we do this? Ideally(IMHO), any use of the word conservative in a discussion of our nominee would be in relation to discussion of policy and not whether the label applies to the man. However, I doubt that this is feasible, so I will propose another solution. First, let's TRY and not voice our opinion on this issue as much as possible. Second, and MORE IMPORTANT, when someone we disagree with does go there, count to ten, drop and do pushups, scream into a pillow, or do anything that will help to NOT directly contradict the statement. That's right, I said it. . .let it go. Realize that no good can come of starting a flamefest on the issue. As much as I might vehemently disagree with some of you on this issue, I trust that everyone here holds their opposing view in good faith, and I hope I can get the same respect from you. I agree to disagree with you, and I hope you will not rub the issue in my face. Is that asking too much?

Let's all aim towards the common goal of electing the most Conservative candidate still standing to the Presidency.
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Be prepared! Find the bastards. And pile on!”
Karl Rove - "(T)he motto on the unit coin of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, the Blackhorse."

"agreeing to disagree".

To be concise, I basically have a Matalin/Carville marriage in reverse. We are both passionate about our political beliefs, and are diametrically opposed on at least several issues that we both believe are crucial for the nation. That being said, there are things that are more important to both of us, namely being the maintenance of a healthy happy household for our daughter and the maintaining of what is a loving, respectful, happy marriage. How is this possible? Simple. Neither of us begins conversations on issues that we know we can not come to agreement on, and perhaps more importantly, we trust that the other holds their beliefs in good faith.

So. . .what is my point? That the priority for (practically) everyone on this site is to see that John McCain become the next President of the United States. Some of us can not believe that this is what our choices have come down to. Some of us think that McCain is the best man for the office. Many of us fall somewhere in between. As political issues are peripheral to my happy marriage, the issue of whether John McCain is (a) conservative is peripheral to the goal of electing him as our 44th President. So. . .let's agree to disagree on that issue.

How can we do this? Ideally(IMHO), any use of the word conservative in a discussion of our nominee would be in relation to discussion of policy and not whether the label applies to the man. However, I doubt that this is feasible, so I will propose another solution. First, let's TRY and not voice our opinion on this issue as much as possible. Second, and MORE IMPORTANT, when someone we disagree with does go there, count to ten, drop and do pushups, scream into a pillow, or do anything that will help to NOT directly contradict the statement. That's right, I said it. . .let it go. Realize that no good can come of starting a flamefest on the issue. As much as I might vehemently disagree with some of you on this issue, I trust that everyone here holds their opposing view in good faith, and I hope I can get the same respect from you. I agree to disagree with you, and I hope you will not rub the issue in my face. Is that asking too much?

Let's all aim towards the common goal of electing the most Conservative candidate still standing to the Presidency.
--------------------------------------------------------------
“Be prepared! Find the bastards. And pile on!”
Karl Rove - "(T)he motto on the unit coin of the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, the Blackhorse."

"Land of the Free and Home of da Whopper" Peter Griffin...Family Guy

conform and celebrate diversity....or else!!!

.

It is not really a compromise when you kick McCainiacs in the groin and throw out a list of demands in order to stop acting like babies.

nothing will be accomplished...how proud you must be of your oversized ego...be careful you night drown in it.

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Freedom of Religion not Freedom from Religion

Hinz Rule even if they aren't trolls.
This is one of those times.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a typical, small town, white girl...

acting like babies
nothing will be accomplished
oversized ego

delirious pain
mystifies barry, scary
soaring, raging libs

Bullock, Swearengen
make peace, temporarily
Hearst comes to Deadwood

He simply spoke for those of us who supported Fred and why we do not view Sen. McCain in the same light. As for the rest of your comment, you are the kind of McCainiac that this diary was aimed at--don't call us names and don't demand that we feel the same way you do about the R candidate. We have said that we would vote for him. What more do you want?

from your insane decree that only Fredheads can define "true conservatism", and to recognize the reality that John McCain and a lot of his supports around here are conservatives and stop treating us like the kid brother who has been hanging with the wrong crowd.

.

I was explaining MY side of it. I said so. I have identified key things that my side holds dear and believes firmly.

Your side and my side are simply NOT going to agree on particulars. I am proposing that you not wave the red flag in front of us, then get all defensive when we get militant.

Peace, Brando.

I said specifically that Russell Kirk defines what conservatism is, and not Fredheads. So that one is a false accusation.

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.

Babies don't often kick people in the groin.

No one of good character leaves behind a wasted life - John McCain

I wish I had a dollar for every well placed kick while changing their diaper!

LOL

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

from the side, and--when they got older--to push the grocery cart with straightened arms. Many near misses, but only three direct hits in seven years...one from each:)

n/t

"This is the future we can all look forward to when these cultist "society" creators are swept into power by the sodomites and coke fiends of the press corps."...GO

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

"I believe we must adjourn this meeting to some other place." - The last recorded words of Adam Smith.

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

It is not really a compromise when you kick McCainiacs in the groin and throw out a list of demands in order to stop acting like babies.

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

There is a new theory/thinking in the area of conflict resolution.

Conflicting resolution is mapped on the grid with Cooperativeness, extent to which one attempts to satisfy the concerns of others, along the x axis and
Assertiveness, extent to which one attempts to satisfy their own concerns, along the y axis.

If you are uncooperative and unassertive you are avoiding -- this results in a state of you lose and I win.

Now if you are cooperative and unassertive then you are accommodating and again the result is you lose and I win.

Now if you are uncooperative and assertive then is identified as competitive and the result is you win and I lose. This is also known as forcing.

If there is a balancing of assertiveness and cooperativeness it becomes a state of COMPROMISING --

now in the state of COMPROMISING the result is always I lose and you lose. You may have reached a decision but not a state of agreement. For years the Middle East Peace process has been based upon Israel compromising.

The optimum conflict handling solution is to get to a state of collaborating. In collaborating both parties are assertive about their positions and both are cooperative.

So skip the compromising and learn to collaborate.

M Penny

"shut up and get in line?"

CFR, Amnesty, Spending, Corruption,
Earmarks, Socialized Medicine:
”Your Silence Is Your Consent!”

Kill the terrorists
Protect the borders
Punch the hippies -- Frank J

As always Adam, you echo my points with a little more diplomacy and tact.

He said McCain himself is not conservative. There's an enormous difference.

that fred heads are "true conservatives" there by implicating that McCainiacs are anything but.

and it ain't there. I think you're a wee bit hypersensitive. He's referring to the "Shut up and get in line" crowd. If you're one of those (which, based on your prior appends, it appears perhaps you are), then go ahead and take umbrage. EPUs comments are correct with respect to that camp.

The "don't call your guy a conservative" part. The "you don't have to be a 'true' conservative" part. The whole idea that FredHeads and McCainiacs are different groups. They were my #1 and 2 and it was close. I like Fred a lot and if he weren't so old, would love him as a VP candidate. If he had won, I wouldn't be writing a bunch of "Fred sucks, here's why" and "Fred's not a conservative" and putting upside stickers of Fred's logo in my signature.

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