Just a Company of American paratroopers, a guitar plugged
into the outpost's PA system, and a whole lot of demolitions.
I don't know who this "prominent DC-based Huckabee ally" is, but he needs to shut his freakin' piehole right now.
Rush Limbaugh is so much more than a mere "entertainer." He has been the heart and soul of the conservative movement for the past twenty or so years. I may not always agree with Rush, but I have enormous respect for him; and he deserves a hell of a lot better than to be denigrated by some campaign flunky.
Governor Huckabee, you need to denounce this idiot immediately.
follow your example, the Huckster would have about 1% of the "problems" he's got at Redstate.
You're a good guy.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Your rhetoric on Huckabee makes it seem you're angling for a prom date with Lisa Schiffren.
1. Who is Lisa? I'm sure Mrs908 would not approve & I'm not about to endure the wrath of Franz for a prom date. Or anything else.
2. If you follow the blogs, the major reason for the "heat" is the fact that Huck's supporters will not engage on issues. They either act like victims or point to another candidate. They will not answer a straight, factual question and they will not discuss the issue at hand.
Alex is the exception (along with a couple of others) to this. He & I had an good discussion about the HLA earlier in the week. No heat, no fireworks, good discussion with no rhetoric needed.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Forgive me if I don't hold Huckabee supporters responsible for your behavior toward them.
...and it ain't looking good. Rush gave his campaign/supporters a good raking over today.
Keep it up Rush!!
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Sorry man -- you know we're on the same boat re: Huckabee, but you're misreading this. The characterization of Rush Limbaugh here comes from .... Rush Limbaugh. Viz.:
Rush spoke about one of the reasons liberal rivals miss the boat: "It's amusing and flattering, but [the liberal left] is violating every rule in the book," he told Media week, explaining. "You don't mention the competition. They are elevating me in stature every time they mention coming up with a liberal version of me. They have an image of me as a ribald conservative. I'm a salesman first and foremost."
-- and --
"I combine two elements: irreverent humor and serious discussion of issues," Limbaugh, who doesn't know when he'll stop told Media Week. "People tune in for both. But the key is having credibility. This has led to critics saying I am just an entertainer. I'm proud to be an entertainer. This is showbiz. At the same time, I believe everything I say."
No foul here.
As for Rush being "the heart and soul of the conservative movement for the past twenty or so years" -- well, good God. I think not, but as you prefer.....
Rush isn't just an entertainer. He has an enormous degree of influence with grass-roots conservatives, and he has done a great deal for the conservative movement in America. That's what I mean when I say that he is the godfather of the modern-day conservative movement. To be sure, I have been influenced much more by Neuhaus, Novak, Arkes, et al, but Rush's substantial impact on American conservatism cannot be denied. For that, I think he is entitled to a certain level of respect. Much more than this joker gave him.
Keep in mind too, that my anger here dervies from this comment: "I can’t remember the last time that [Rush] has veered from the talking points from the DC/Manhattan chattering class." That's simply beyond the pale IMHO.
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
The Harriet Miers debacle is a good example of Rush siding with the grass-roots folks over the elites.
I confess that I don't listen to Rush as much as I use to, but I've never considered him to be merely a talking-points guy. If anything, he is often the author of the talking points used by conservatives.
In any event, even if one held such a view of Rush, it is unwise (read: political suicide) to make an enemy of him. You're better off calling the president's foreign policy "arrogant."
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
Miers was a fight between the Bush Administration and its establishment allies and the elites of the conservative movement - the grassroots really was divided. Rush sided with people like George Will and Krauthammer and Frum (and you, and me). That's hardly a pitchfork-wielding crowd.
But I totally agree with the last line of your comment. And in general, I do think Rush is a guy who thinks for himself, certainly far more than someone like Hannity. If he's usually on the side of the NY and DC based conservative organs it's because they are usually all working from the same premises.
Anyway, the idea that Huck's troubles are principally about elitism rather than about his lefty/populist rhetoric, adoption of Kerryish foreign policy cliches and his economic record is basically a rhetorical dodge.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
...I'm not saying I don't agree with him 90% of the time.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
he's a brawler, not a legitimate conservative advocate. But then having to play patty-cake every day with that whining limp noodle Alan Colmes can do that to a person.
Stare decisis is fo' suckas -- Feddie
I couldn't disagree more. If Huckabee is an apostate on fiscal issues and aesthetics (which he is, to some extent, although that extent has been massively exaggerated), he is no more of one than Rudy and Romney on social, cultural, and moral issues. Less, I'd say. The extra vitriol that Huckabee comes in for is mostly explicable by -- well, elitism.
Again, I give you Lisa Schiffren, and toss in a Lopez and Hewitt for good measure.
1. Playing the victim card.
2. Declaring those who are against you are "elitists" or establishment hacks, rich "fat cats", etc.
3. Lie and/or personally attack (Mormons believe Jesus is the brother of Satan)
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
In order!
1) Victim card? Nah. Noting reality ain't that.
2) You appear to have cause and effect a bit muddled. One is not an elitist merely by virtue of attacking Mike Huckabee.
3) For your sake, my friend: don't speak from ignorance.
Do let me know if you need elaboration on any of the above!
...calling a well-respected fiscally conservative group the Club for Greed? Why does he think CEO salaries should be regulated? Why does he make statements like Bush is arrogant? Why does he accuse people of "drinking a different Jesus juice" than he does if they disagree on illegal immigration (which again, he is way out of the Republican mainstream).
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Just abandoning the Mormonism thing, eh? Good move.
Since you ask, I'll answer your questions in order:
1) The Huckabee/CFG fight does neither side credit. Enough said there.
2) Beats me. I don't agree with that. You point being -- what?
3) Newflash: Bush is arrogant.
4) You're drawing blood from a rhetorical stone on this one.
I, along the majority of the GOP base takes the CfG position on taxes and spending. That puts them at odds with Huckabee. Huckabee takes it a step further by not just disagreeing with them, but he attacks them. Why does he attack conservative stalwarts?
The point is that regulating CEO salaries is something John Edwards would do. That is not a conservative position. Why does Huckabee embrace liberal/populist positions like that?
Attacking Bush is not the way to endear yourself to conservatives. Again, calling him arrogant is exactly what Hillary Clinton called him.
Immigration - nuff said here. Huckabee is on the losing side of this one. That's why he made a stunning flip-flop on the issue last week as he was being attacked on it in Iowa.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Learn it, live it, campaign on it.
See, you're actually right that Mike Huckabee does not hew to conservative orthodoxy on several points. But here's the rub: neither do his major opponents. So when you get a fellow who decries Huckabee and then lends vocal support to, say, Romney or Rudy, well -- it makes that fellow look like a great whopping hypocrite.
Not saying that's you. No. I have no idea whom you support. You're just a guy who equates George W. Bush with conservatism. That's not hypocritical: that's just sad.
Bush is not a true conservative. He is a Republican that is conservative on some things. I've never thought of him as a conservative ideologue.
Romney does basically toe the conservative line as of now. Some people think he is a liar, others think he's honestly changed. It's a personal opinion.
Of all the people running, only Fred Thompson strikes me as an ideologue.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Would that he evidenced any interest in running.
Not sure what to say about folks swallowing the Romney pill. Doesn't take much these days, I guess.
Sorry, BJ's the clear loser. Especially on the issue of fuel taxes. He clearly and reapeatedly lied about the issue on national TV. He didn't have to. Several of his supporters have made a good case for the fuel taxes right here, BJ hasn't even tried, he just turned the guns on the "Club for Greed" and then went to whining about CEO salaries.
____
CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
....is that you move from this to complaining that no one wants to talk to you.
1. You neglected to mention foreign policy
2. Neither Rudy nor Mitt has torn into their conservative critics in this race the way Huck has gone after the Club.
3. "Aesthetics"? You mean "campaign rhetoric," right? How you run does matter.
I need no convincing about Lopez and Hewitt. I agreed with Schiffren when she ripped Huck for being basically unready for prime time but some of her later posts, I'll give you. We both know she is one of the most well-known and widely-read conservative pundits, right?
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
In turn:
1) I've written at length on Huckabee and foreign policy. Suffice it to say that I find most critique of him in this sphere to be without substantive merit -- especially versus his opponents in the race.
2) Don't forget who went after whom first, there. And don't forget who does the most work to continue the ridiculous feud long after its origins have been lost in the mists of Arkansan politicking. I'm on record as stating they should kiss and make up, and I'm sticking to it.
3) Oh, agreed completely. Big, big reason I loathe Romney.
As for Schiffren -- hey, she's an archetype with a soapbox at the putative flagship of the conservative movement. YMMV, as they say.
As to #1, my point is simply that Huck supporters' effort to paint this as elitist fiscons vs salt of the earth socons ignores the rather large role that national security plays in the coalition, esp. in wartime, and the role it has played in particular in alarming opponents of Huck in recent weeks. I swear I never thought before this campaign that I would live to hear - and not just on this particular controversy - patriotism and national security derided as the exclusive concerns of pointy-headed New York intellectuals.
As to #2, I don't dispute that the Club fired first.
As to Schiffren, all I'll say is that as of about a week ago I could not even have told you who she is.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
I'm not exactly a neophyte on the national-security front. (I know, you're not accusing me of that, but bear with me --)
I joined the Army, for starters. That's something. My OBC class commander and a college friend both died in Iraq. Another ROTC colleague lost an arm and an eye in Afghanistan. I started noendbutvictory.com. I was in NYC for 9/11, and London for 7/7. I agitated for GWB in '04 purely on the war issue. I'm a longstanding critic of the President's war leadership .... because I find him too pacific on the topic.
All that said -- I don't find Huckabee disturbing on war, and if I may say so, I've got pretty good credentials on the topic. The narrative that he's poor on the subject is -- well, mystifying.
I'd like you to enlighten us as to the real reason as to why you support Michael D. Huckabee over all the other candidates. It's not because he is conservative. It's not because he is someone who will unite the conservative base.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Oh, well, then. If you say so, Carnac!
...with the Arkansas director of the Eagle Forum stating that she started as a huge Huckabee backer and ended up being sorely disappointed with his liberal record as governor?
Or how about the conservative Republicans in Arkansas he campaigned against because they disagreed with the Huckster on taxes, spending, and immigration?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
....I've been called "un-conservative" by people who disagree with me plenty of times. I'll reserve my own judgment, thanks. You'd do well to do the same.
I never called you un-conservative. I am calling Huckabee that - and you didn't answer either charge against Huck.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
I'm well aware of where you are coming from. You and I are starting from different premeses on what constitutes conservative foreign and national security policy, so I don't expect we will agree on the effect of Huck appropriating big heaps of used Kerry cliches and passing them off as a conservative foreign policy.
That said, I think you are by far the exception to the rule - the overwhelming impression I get from Huckabee supporters is that they hardly think national security is an issue at all, let alone one of great concern to a large segment of the party.
"No compromise with the main purpose, no peace till victory, no pact with unrepentant wrong." - Winston Churchill
I'm not advocating making an enemy of Rush.
That said, if you're on the receiving end of his fire, why simply take it?
Libeling a hero of the conservative movement is not a good move for Huck.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.
My, you're in a saucy mood today, Josh.
Not that I disagree with a whole lot -- I do on several minor fronts, but hey, Christmas Break is upon us, and it's 70 degrees in Texas. Anyway, welcome back from your hibernation.
Stare decisis is fo' suckas -- Feddie
I'm not making a subtly-coded appeal to faith, nor impugning Mormonism, when I say that it is God's country.
obviously you've never set foot in Arizona.
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CongressCritter™: Never have so few felt like they were owed so much by so many for so little.
Yeah, well, some Cowboys are fixin' to 'set foot in Arizona' here in a month or so.
Stare decisis is fo' suckas -- Feddie
Lets check. I think libel means somethink akin to the following definition.
"A written, printed, or pictorial statement that unjustly defames someone publicly."
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/libel
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
The Huckabee campaign has responded to every legitimate criticism of his record with libel (Club for Greed, radical, anti-evangelical, anti-Christian, elitist, etc.). Heck, today you guys even libeled Rush.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
"The Huckabee campaign has responded to every legitimate criticism of his record with libel...."
Lisa? Is that you?
I am not sure who Lisa is, but I suspect that you are making my point.
btw: If you are a serious friend of the Huckabee campaign read and respond to the following link. It summarizes many of Huckabee's flaws.
http://www.redstate.com/blogs/mbecker908/2007/dec/17/huckabee_is_to_the_...
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
That is not much of a response. It is also consistent with the formula used by most Huckabee in response to any form of criticism.
Huckabee Formula
#1 Distract the audience from the topic at hand
#2 Attack, usually via some type of slander, or personal attack
P.S. Who is Lisa?
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
insert the word supporters between Huckabee and in.
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
I think it's some kind of secret code that Huckabots use to identify each other.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
And it certainly didn't do me any favors. I just think the Lisa thing is amusing because it is becoming an standard insult among Huckabots. You aren't the only one I've seen throw it around.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
Broaden your reading list, is my recommendation.
Maybe this will help?
***
“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
The sense of entitlement rankles, no doubt.
What is that supposed to mean?
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
You're looking down your nose at everyone - stop being a jerk.
Everyone else (quietly - as Moe would say), enough, please.
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
I'm never gone forever.
Stop playing the victim card, I say!
I bid you farewell in your goodbye diary, wished you well. I'm not playing the victim card - I've just had it up to here (hand up to my eyes) with the pro/anti Huckabee talk around here, because it seems neither side can be civil about it. In this here thread, you've been a condescending jerk - if you were just some random person instead of one of the founders of this site, you would probably have received a nice moderator warning to tone it down. And yes others have been just as bad as you, and that doesn't make it right (hence my admonition to everyone else as well). You should know better, everyone should start acting better.
</dad voice>
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
Folks get as they give. Pity you don't like it. Noted.
that's what the anti-Huckers say.
Free clue right back at you... grow up.
___________________________________
Two thirds of the world is covered by water,
the other third is covered by Champ Bailey.
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
I was alluding to this Huckbot's comments, and its implication that Rush was both a mindless puppet under the control of some evil group of establishment elites, and working to elect democrats to office. Perhaps you missed it?
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
and one does not want to provoke him to take the gloves off.
That's a bad plan.
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
We are but warriors for the working-day.
He's got a half dozen things, just from recent memory, listed there.
---
Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman
...a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial appearance of being right...
---Thomas Paine---
Rush Limbaugh is not in the same league as guys like Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley Jr., or Ronald Reagan.
He isn't even on par with George Will or Pat Buchanan.
But he is a fine radio personality and he has done a lot to broaden support for the conservative movement among ordinary working class Americans.
Rush isn't an elitist. He's part of the conservative elite.
But I think conservative elites play an important role in the conservative movement. Take the Club for Growth as an example.
Most of us don't have the time, resources or inclination to do a comprehensive study of the economic policies of six of the Republican candidates for president. So, the Club for Growth performs this important service for the conservative movement. In addition, they raise money to take on moderate to liberal Republicans like Arlen Specter in Pennsylvania in the 2004 Senate Race.
Rush Limbaugh is obviously another important example as are many other radio talk show hosts and syndicated columnists.
Let's also realize that many of these people and groups can disagree among themselves on issues and candidates. This is how a Pat Robertson can endorse Rudy Giuliani, Paul Wyerich can endorse Mitt Romney and National Right to Life can endorse Fred Thompson. Robertson, Wyerich and NRTL are part of the conservative elite and can inform grass roots conservatives as to whether a given candidate is getting the support of key conservatives.
If a candidate is getting large amounts of opposition from members of the conservative elite, perhaps this is an indication that the candidate is insuffiently conservative.
"But I am a true soldier for the cause. If my own abandon me on the battlefield, it will have a chilling effect."
___________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: I am a member of a state-wide executive committee that is affiliated with Governor Mike Huckabee's campaign for the GOP presidential nomination
...on his thoughts about how all evangelicals must rally behind him.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
but at the whole tragically bunkered scene (and is itself actually a quote which narrows its own reference).
The subtlety is intentional because I am hoping that those who are unleashing this genie -- which is so much more divisive than so far ascribed -- will stuff it back in the bottle before it wrecks its course, taking back the tithe.
I'd be happy to be more specific in email if you wish.
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Spot-on, well said, and all that.
Pity that campaign supporters can at times be, erm, unhelpful (COUGHhughhewettCOUGH), but it does happen.
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Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.