Monday Open Thread

By Leon H Wolf Posted in Comments (44) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »

Behold, I shall make a totally unfounded prediction: Barack Obama will win the popular vote by a margin larger than Gore's. He will nevertheless lose the electoral college vote by more than 10. I think that Obama might rack up some huge wins in liberal states - larger than Gore's or Kerry's. But I think he also might lose OH, PA *and* FL, which makes it almost impossible for him to win the electoral college. Just a gut feeling, of course.

Anyway, open thread.

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Let's hope not by justatron

If Obama wins the popular vote by a decent margin (500,000+ votes) and loses the electoral, kiss the electoral vote system goodbye.

Best example ever.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

Article V of the Constitution requires 3/4 of the states to ratify any amendment. That's a pretty steep hill to climb. The small states, especially, won't want to give up their say in the presidential election process.

I think the electoral college is here for the duration.

Your argument holds as long as no court takes upon itself the duty to interpret the "living constitution" of the activist judge's own beliefs rather than the authoritative document to which you have referred. Taking the Constitution into the courtroom always entails a degree of risk when these dangerous bench-fillers exist.

I heartily agree that small states would not want to alter the current system.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

--
Gone 2500 years, still not PC.

Nah.... by tgharris

Wholesale Leftist enlightenment requires some ambiguity in the language, or a dreamed up "right" where none exists. Article V is crystal clear.

What I wonder... by liberalrepublican

Is the long Democrat fight a pure positive? Yeah, they are beating the snot out of each other, but the Dem's are signing up tons of new voters and voter turnout is extremely high. Tons of new donors have sent in cash and are ready for another call.

We'll see.

I think when it comes down to it, the American people are too smart to trust their future to Obama - he is just too soft - but it will be very, very, very close.

"Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. ... including extensive freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, the free exchange of ideas, a market or mixed economy,

Most of those new voters and new donors are young people who are all fired up about the socialist rhetoric that Obama spews. It Hillary manages to outflank him in political moves, those new voters will become disillusioned and stay home or maybe start re-examining their own ideas and come around to conservatism.

It was Democrat lies about Reagan that turned me fully Republican. I'm hoping they drive a few our way this time out too.

Socialism doesn't work. It looks nice on paper, but it's been tried and it's failed miserably every time (usually accompanied by widespread death and suffering).
Proud member of the V.R.W.C.

...I actually think that we have a chance to get him to crater outright. His walkback from declaring victory tomorrow pretty much confirms that this goes on to Puerto Rico, and from there it's just two-plus lovely months of vicious organizational fighting in the Democratic Party. Particularly if he doesn't double-digit win Oregon tomorrow, although I have to assume that he will.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

My current guess is that John McCain gets 53 percent of the popular vote and at least 310 electoral votes.

Despite that, the GOP will lose ground in both the House and Senate, so 'divided government' will be the post-election meme.

---
Finrod's First Law of Bandwidth:
A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it takes the bandwidth of ten thousand.

I don't buy libs sitting by swamp_yankee

I don't buy libs sitting this election out. There will be sour grapes for a while, but libs are libs. Politics is their religion. They will vote.

I think the voter most likely to be disillusioned is the union voter. The old school beer swilling white FDR Democrat. They've somehow convinced themselves that Hillary is one of them even though she is every bit as radical as Obama. They bought into the Bill Clinton lie though.

I think these guys sit on their hands on election day. This will help greatly in Michigan and maybe Pennsylvania.

If Hillary does steal it. I think it is the black vote that may sit on their hands, but I don't think Hillary can steal it anymore. Either way the liberals care coming out in full force some are just sulking right now.

...and I agree with the rest of your analysis, except the part about Hillary being "every bit as radical as Obama".

Hillary certainly has the same socialist inclinations and the same poor understanding of market economics as BO. However, HRC lacks any steadfast principles - she is driven by power and polls, not necessarily a love of ideology. Obama is a true believer in wealth redistribution and the nannyization of America. Whereas Hillary may occasionally do the right thing for the wrong reasons, Obama is more dangerous because he actually believes that our salvation lies in combining strongarm government control of private business and our private lives with passive foreign policy and national defense.

--
"We want great men who, when fortune frowns, will not be discouraged." - Colonel Henry Knox

Hillary is a marxist. In by swamp_yankee

Hillary is a marxist. In some ways she is worse than Obama because she is so devious. To the Marxist, the ends justify the means and as Reagan said, they reserve the right to lie and cheat to accomplish their goals. Look at her lifelong associations. Actually, the Washington Post had a soft hit piece today. The reality is much worse.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/18/AR200805...

Hillary is a Menshevik by robertallen

Obama is a Bolshevik.

I sure hope by pac NY

Leon's gut feeling is correct. The more we hear and learn about Obama's politics, the more scared I become. I think he's just dangerous, period. After looking at some of the online polls, it's almost as scary to realize how many people do not see this man for what he is.

He toucheth the mountain - and it smokes

The polls I've seen suggest that a lot of Americans have doubts about Obama.

But they are just totally disgusted with the way the country is going (you've seen the poll that 80% think we're on the "wrong track"). And in that sour mood, they may well give Obama a chance despite their doubts about him.

It's exactly what happened in 1980. Blue-collar workers were unused to voting for a doctrinaire conservatve like Reagan. But they just wanted Carter out of office so much that they gave Reagan a chance.

Just as Carter found out in 1980, Republicans are going to find out this year that they cannot hope to hold the White House just by sowing doubt about the challenger. Americans want a fresh start, not more of the same. Carter couldn't promise that. Can McCain?

I'll go out on a limb here (but its a pretty stiff and solid limb) to predict that Obama will lose the general election by the largest margin any candidate has ever lost by. Republicans will regain the house by a massive margin and pick up all open seats in the Senate. It will be a complete sweep. Don't believe me? Fine.

Celebrating Patriots and Exposing Traitors At http://www.countryaboveself.com with a new video on the way: George Bush's 'It's A Wonderful Country' (yes a take off on the movie.) Coming Soon! It doesn't spill the beans, but it does tell a story you don't know yet.

I do think McCain beats Obama 54-46 because of a) Supreme Court issue, if/when McCain makes the point that a vote for Obama with a Democratic Senate means homosexual marriage is a given and b) the economy, if/when McCain makes the point that Obama's economic plan is higher taxes, period.

But Iraq will be the balancing measure in House and Senate seats. We underestimate (unless we look at President Bush's poll numbers) and open-seat elections how singularly unpopular the War in Iraq is. You basically have less than 20% that "support" the action right now, the 80% remaining are split between being against the War from the start (smallest group), believe that the war has been so terribly mismanaged its a lost cause (the largest group) and those that believe that it is a too costly effort that is going nowhere but down with no end ever in sight (the middle group) and troops and resources would be better spent in the greater global war on terror.

Come November... by ilitigant

Iraq will not even BE an issue. It will be back page news.

Celebrating Patriots and Exposing Traitors At http://www.countryaboveself.com with a new video on the way: George Bush's 'It's A Wonderful Country' (yes a take off on the movie.) Coming Soon! It doesn't spill the beans, but it does tell a story you don't about yet.

How you figure that? by robertallen

Short of us being out of Iraq. It will be a huge issue in November, to the benefit of Democrats in House and Senate races.

It's not even Iraq by sinz52

When the economy is perceived as bad in the year leading up to the election, incumbents tend to get clobbered.

This has been a year of collapsing housing prices, skyrocketing food and fuel prices, a declining dollar and an economic slowdown which only drastic Fed action has kept from sliding into an all-out recession.

On top of which, Bush's record on job growth over his two terms has been poor compared to either Reagan or Clinton.

But most important of all, is Bush's extreme unpopularity (approval ratings below 30%). Not since 1876 has a highly unpopular incumbent President been succeeded by someone from his own party. In every election since 1876, when the President was pretty unpopular, his party lost the White House in the next election.

It all depends on who McCain's VP choice is.

This is the most divided election I have seen in my 50+ years life.

Republicans divisions
=====================
Hard core Religious voters(Huckabee supporters)
Fiscal Conservatives (Romney Supporters)
Defense Conservatives (McCain Supporters)
The other Conservatives are not so divided.

Democrat divisions.
===================
African American Voters (Obama Supporters)
Liberal Voters (Obama Supporters)
Blue Collar Democrats (Hillary Supporters)
Latin Voters (Hillary Supporters)

In the end, this is McCain's election to lose. And based on his VP, he is likely to upset some conservatives while pleasing others (or making them all upset).

With many of Hillary Supporters likely to move to McCain, its a question of how many Republican voters are likely to abandon McCain. McCain VP pick will have a lot to do with if he wins the election and by how much.

I am a religious voter and I know many who would be happy with Romney.

And despite what the editors want you to think, most religous conservatives would be happy with Condelezza Rice.

Even my Dad who is very, very conservative said he would love to see Rice on the ticket.

Even after I told him in details about her being "mildly pro choice," he wasn't the least bit hesitant.

In most people's minds, she's solidly a conservative.

Now, I understand the whole "too close to Bush" thing, but I wanted to clarify that a lot of conservatives are still with her.

She is super smart and would make a great debate matchup for whoever the Dems put on the ticket with Barak.

'32 Redux? by MadHatChemist

With such an anti-GOP tide looming, Obama may end up getting elected regardless of his foibles (which will be duly covered up by the MSM and with the Dem's $).

People will vote for someone promising competent big government over a big-government party that has proven to be incompetent AND corrupt.

This will not end well.

Yes it will.... by ilitigant

Celebrating Patriots and Exposing Traitors At http://www.countryaboveself.com with a new video on the way: George Bush's 'It's A Wonderful Country' (yes a take off on the movie.) Coming Soon! It doesn't spill the beans, but it does tell a story you don't about yet.

we will see by November just how racial this nation still is, on both sides. Blacks will stream out to give their 95% of the vote to Obama. But I think the press is underestimating the extent to which the white vote, especially the southern democrat white vote, will march to the polls for McCain.

There is much anecdotal evidence in MA of a groundswell by white democrats toward McCain because of a justifiable fear of what Obama will bring to the Presidency. I have never heard so many democrats in a presidential election completely turned off by their nominee-in-waiting. We'll see if this has staying power through November.

But in any case, I agree that Obama will probably lose Pennsylvania and also Michigan. After the pasting he got in WV and will proably get in KY, I see no chance for him to win FL, or for that matter any southern state.

Will be Sen. Nelson (FL), Gov. Strickland (OH), and the leader Ed Rendell (PA). Rendell will presumably help with Jewish voters and Pennsylvania/Ohio. Recall earlier, the thought process was the Dem needed a Hispanic on the ticket? Richardson? I think that falls by the wayside as I suspect Obama will not get near the Hispanic vote he may have anticipated and McCain will get near, or perhaps surpass, Bush's hispanic vote in 2004.

Totally Wrong by TheSentinel

This election is B. Hussein Obama's to lose. You guys seem to have forgotten how close the 2000 election was. And this was after 8 years of the wholly televised, dysfunctional, pathological Clinton administration. What makes any of you believe that Barack can lose when:

1: Republicans are NOT in power in the Congress anymore as we were in the Clinton 90's.

2: When George Bush was MUCH more popular than he is now, even as a relative unknown during the election of 2000.

3: When Republicans were STILL fighting for conservative values leading up to the election of 2000.

4: When we weren't saddled by a HUGELY unpopular and seemingly unwinnable war which combined with our actions in Afghanistan has cost us between 1-3 trillion dollars.

5: When we have gone through 2 burst bubbles (Tech and Housing), a recession (post 9/11), a more or less stagnant Stock Market, and now the looming spectre of stagflation with an economy teetering on recession, yet saddled with spiraling fuel and food costs under the leadership of the FIRST HARVARD MBA president in history.

6: When the people spoke FIRST of their opposition to all things Republican in 2006 when Congress fell back into the hands of Democrats and now with the TRIFECTA of special elections which have all gone to Democrats.

7: When the best that Republicans can do is nominate a RHINO in the form of John McCain and still they panic because fund-raising is down compared to the Democrats and they do not have a consistent vision or message that is much different from Obama. And when some party flack talks about how McCain is different one only has to go back and look at all the times McCain walked across the aisle of the Senate to vote with the Democrats.

I mean, GET SERIOUS GUYS! Republicans are going to be devestated in November because this is the 70's all over again. Oil shocks, inflation, an unpopular war, a hugely unpopular President, a GOP in disarray, consumer discontent, spiraling crime, a general sense of malaise, radicals on campus, social unrest, the rise of militant gays and feminism....all hallmarks of the 70's are again here now, only the radicals are in the media, the radical feminist is a nominee (at least for a little bit longer) and the radical gays have won (between California and Massachusetts, gay marriage will be the law of the land in a couple of years or less).

And all of these awful hallmarks of the 70's ushered in the Carter years. Just as the repeat of these hallmarks in 2008 will usher in B. Hussein Obama.

But don't blame the Democrats when you stoke up the fireplace and put on your cardigan sweater, and turn your thermostat WAY DOWN, and try to scrape enough money to buy gas after pushing your car to the filling station, and wondering what we are going to do about Iran, and when you will you ever be able to pay just the interest alone on your debts when interest rates are 10%+ (forget about credit cards), and do you have enough candles and flashlights for the rolling blackouts and just how much it sucks to be an American now in the 2010's.

Blame the Republicans. For they flushed everything down the toilet. Just as the Nixonian/Ford Republicans did.

The Amish will survive!!!! n/t by From ME to you


non progredi est regredi

...I'll just go and stick my head in the stove once the pork chops are done.

No, wait, it's an electric oven. Never mind.

The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!

Its no wonder we have trouble using rational arguments to attract voters.

While we appeal to the better angels of mans nature, the other side throws up candidates who aren't even in the race.


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

What will the Dems do when Bush is gone? by St. Louis Conservative

Their entire message is "F*** Bush!!", "change!". When Bush is gone, honestly, what will the Dems do? I think the Dems will try and find some way to attach Bush to the 2010 and 2012 campaign as well. It's all they know how to do.

“.....women and minorities hardest hit”

MDS here we come.

While those are also many points against the republican's above here in the post all McCain has to do is ask Obama 1 simple question and he'll stumble and fall and make an ass of himself.

Mr. Obama, what is your definition of change?

and Obama will bumble like a putz, cause he doesn't have a plan, he just has words and no way of back it up. He's a mouthpiece for the moronic and people who believe he can change the world.

See we're in a tough place this election. With all the debates do you think even 1 will give Obama a hard question? And we see what happened when Fox tried to have a debate, the Dems took their balls (or lack there of) and ran home.

There needs to be a 1 on 1 debate where McCain can ask Obama a question and Obama can ask McCain, or Bob Barr.

Question 1) What have you done for this country? You talk of hope and change, but those things can't help an economy, can't protect us, can't provide knowledge that we are going to be safe.

Question 2) You had your big race speech but in turn you labled all white people as being afraid of African Americans and you tossed your Grandmother under the bus over the issue. How can we get passed these little scuffles and really bring this country together.

Question 3) You claim Bush's comments on the 60th birthday of Israel were misleading and twisted your words. (Plays video of exactly what Obama said) yet in the same sense you attack me and twist my words (video of McCain speech and speeches where Obama twisted his words) What do you have to say about there being this double standard?

Question 4) Every Dem uses the "We're stuck in a war and no republican has a real exit strategy," What Mr. Obama is your exit plan? If we pull everyone out the last group of soldiers will be sitting ducks, There were 4,000 dead in this war but there will be 1,000 killed in that last group due to the lack of support and the willingness of the terrorist to say "See we pushed them out"

Question 5) With the ever growing Alliance of Iran, Syria, North Korea and Venezeula how will you combat the threat to our country that has been thrown around by these groups and what are your real ideas to combat the price of oil that will come with this grouping. We see how ethenol isn't working and is crippling the normal US family, will you finally agree that the only real, quick, cheapest solution is either US drilling and refineries or going nuclear?

Question 6) All your social plans have been added up and by the looks of it anyone making over $65,000 a year will be paying in the 55% tax range to cover these plans, while you, as a citizen, have donated less out of pocket then all those who ran this cycle. How can you expect the people of the United States to give away their hard earned cash when you yourself don't and when you continue to support bills that are filled with pork. Mr. Obama you are creating the illegal redistribution of wealth to support the lives of those who won't support themselves, is this really the American way?

Obama is a Fool by Section9

One of the things that Liberals were counting on this year was to keep the Republicans dispirited and demoralized.

And at home.

Barack is getting them charged up for, of all people, John Sidney McCain. Captain Amnesty.

His inability to throw the Left under the Bus will be the reason he loses the popular vote, and the Electoral College.

Yes, it's the Spring. The Spring is always the time of Black Tidings for Republicans. However, things always turn.

"History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it"-Winston Churchill

While I can see the perspective of some commenters that the race is Obama's to lose, I believe the opposite.

Despite the popularity of Obama, especially among young voters, and the perceived tarnish on the Republican brand, the electoral map is not so different from the past. My gut feel agrees that Obama has big problems winning OH, PA and FL. He will need to move very far to the "middle" to be competitive in these states. Doable, but difficult, given his idealistic base.

McCain, on the other hand, has a following among many Democrats, myself included. I think he would be a pretty decent President. He's not as left as I would like but I think he would still serve as a good steward for our country. All he needs to do is tweak slightly to the middle and he'll get those, so called, "Reagan Democrats."

This Dem is on the fence. Obama still has much to prove. Can he move to the middle? Time will tell. McCain, if he tacks a bit to the middle, as he is starting to do, gets OH, PA and FL ... and wins.

Hey REDSTATE, last year there was much doom and gloom here. Now Republicans have a better than average shot at keeping the Whitehouse and some coattail wins in the legislature. Glass half full, no?

only has the elites, college students and the blue coasts....the rest of red America will not bite on this guy...McCain needs to just stop with any pandering and stick to the fundamentals and it is his.

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

Stay the Course by LibRick

McCain is what he is. R's and D's don't like various things about him but he is a pretty acceptable candidate for most if he stays the course and remembers what got him here in the first place. If elites, college kids and coastal blue states is all Obama has, he can't win.(electoral map)

Or is it just his usual gaffes clustering ?


"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777

No Republican was on the primary ballot to take on be the sacrificial lamb to our lefty congressman (Pete DeFazio), so I guess I'll be voting for the Libertarian candidate and can say that I don't vote straight party tickets :)

___________________________________
Just like PayPal, except it's free and a $25 bonus to sign up!

It all depends on the economy. If we are in a slump with high gas prices and a weak dollar, then look for a lot of independents and "deep thinkers" to vote for him.

"Nothing works like freedom, Nothing succeeds like liberty"
Kyle

Obama's strategy is to paint this election as a referendum on the Bush Administration, and insinuate that McCain will just be more of the same.

Hence the perception of the country's status on Election Day is what may determine the election. If the election had been held in January or February, with the deepening economic slowdown, we wouldn't have had a prayer. Thanks to the economic stimulus package and Fed actions, there's a chance, a small chance, that the economy will look a little brighter by November.

Late in the summer, Petraeus is also supposed to announce whether troop withdrawals can continue in Iraq. Let's hope that there is some good news on that front. An announcement by Petraeus or Bush that all further troop withdrawals are indefinitely suspended due to an uptick in violence (or any other reason) would probably spell doom for McCain. But good news in Iraq can really help defuse that issue for November.

 
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