DNC Rules Committee Open Thread
Or "Why You Should Buy Orville Redenbacher Stock"
By absentee Posted in 2008 | Best Democratic Primary EVER! — Comments (34) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The DNC’s Rules and Bylaws Committee is meeting today to determine what to do with Florida and Michigan and, by extension, Hillary Clinton. If you have CSPAN, turn it on. There's some classic infighting.
Michigan presented their bid first. They have a proposal to use the votes cast, the exit polls and their survey of the uncounted write-in votes in order to come up with their proposed delegate allocation.
Don Fowler, Committee Member from SC and Hillary Clinton Supporter, had this to say:
"I feel a little bit like Alice in Wonderland because on the one hand we have hard votes and then the other hand we want to discount the hard votes with exit polls. And ... if we could do that John Kerry would be President of the United States now."
Delightful. "You are stealing the vote just like BUSH!!!!! did" is how I'd summarize that tidbit.
Then there's this gem:
"It is my understanding that the four candidates in question voluntarily withdrew their names from the Michigan ballot. No party rule required them to do that. The DNC did not exhort them to do that; And the pledge that was entered into among the four early states and eight presidential candidates made no mention, much less any requirement that they withdraw their names, and that was a completely voluntary effort. Some have said that some candidates withdrew their name from that Michigan ballot to curry favor with the likes of Iowa and I just want to understand ... in terms of the decision they made, that was a voluntary decision."
Harold Ickes, Committee Member from DC and Hillary Clinton Campaign adviser.
Ahhh, superb. This is going to be a good day. RedState's Moe Lane will be covering the protests when he returns to safety later today. In the meantime, here's a little taste:
OPEN THREAD
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and at about 12:19 ET I decided to go ahead and finish last night's 12-pack. I didn't know it would take all day but I decided, hey, let's go ahead and soak in some history.
"We're not going to sit by and do nothing for another decade or two while one or two States insist that they got a God-given privilege to go first."
Ha! Fire and brimstone, rain down upon the DNC!!
They "seek a full Michigan delegation with full voting rights," he said.
These guys keep taking shots at Iowa. Nice.
I mean their ability to conduct a well run campaign will be on display for the whole world.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
Drink Good Coffee. You can sleep when you're dead.
Very nice!!
Man church Royal Court....
The Porcelain God...gamecock
Emperor of Explication...EPU
Earl of Nacho...Joliphant
High King of Haiku...bigator5
Baron of Bandwidth...ME to you
Sultan of Spew...jdub19
Prince of the Patently Plain, Oligarch of the Obvious...john wayne
Emir of the Indignant...prismsinc
Archduke of the ATF...kyle12
Paramount Ruler of the Big Silver Cooler....Blooch
Bey of Bash, Negus of No Gracias...mbecker908
Gurkhan of Goodwrench
Andriana of the Animated Gif...Robert A. Hahn
nt
His argument was the following:
- You should seat the entire Michigan delegation.
- You need to respect those who voted, but you have to respect those who didn't (by ignoring the ones who did).
- Some Obama supporters were too stupid to follow the advice of voting for 'uncommitted' and voted for Hillary as their second choice, so it's fair to take some of Hillary's votes and give them to Obama.
- It's not fair to arbitrarily allocate delegates based on votes or even on a compromise, so clearly the only fair thing to do is to arbitrarily divide them 50-50.
Tremendous.
The Obama folks would have more credibility if they said Michigan should get no votes or that they should get 64 uncommitted delegates or that they should get 128 uncommitted delegates. Clearly Obama is trying to have it both ways - not to disenfranchise MI voters by having them lose delegates, but to disenfranchise them by ignoring how they voted.
He of course wants to keep the 55% Clinton / 40% Obama / 5% other ration by splitting them 73-55. He caused some heated exchanges by saying the primary wasn't flawed - the flaw was in the strategy of those who withdrew their names. He didn't say this, but he was implying IMHO that those who withdrew their names knew they were going to lose, so wanted to try to invalidate the primary. He also pointed out more than once that there were very public and orchestrated campaigns to ask people to vote uncommitted, so it's not like anyone was telling the voters to stay home.
I just popped in over at Kos and they are having a literal fit over HRC and the possibility that she may get any votes. Granted they are for Obama there, but nary a single "Count All The Votes" post.
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It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle
They took a "lunch" break until 4:15. It's now 5:00 and they have yet to reappear. Either they are completely out of control or they are meeting in secret in a smoke-filled room trying to work out deals under the table and out of the eye of the camera.
I like it.
_____________________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle
Very nice little banner you got there, Neil Stevens. I made the McCain button in my signature too. I also have a RedState button I made (tell me what you think):
I think the RS is nice, but the McCain is squished.
Thanks man! However, that was the best I could do with the programs I have for the McCain button.
Preserve the aspect ratio of each element of the logo.
Chuck Todd was reporting that:
- They will go with the 69-59 compromise AND
- They will halve that so that Hillary only nets 5 AND
- Obama will get two other superdelegate spots (not sure if they are half or full
So instead of netting 18 from MI she will net 3-4.
The only way she would agree to this is if she gets to count ALL the popular vote gains as hers, since between MI and FL I think she will overtake Obama in the popular vote.
...whatever the heck it is that the Democrats intend to mean the new delegate number to be. They can just let me know what they intended it to be, and we'll leave it at that. :)
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
?
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
The Fuzzy Puppy of the VRWC. I've been usurped!
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Obama could have looked magnanimous today and offered to let Hillary get all the delegates she wanted and taken the rest. 25 or 30 delegates were not going to change the fact that he'll lock up the delegate count needed later this week.
Instead, he comes off looking extremely petty, especially in Michigan. It sure looks like Hillary is not satisfied with the outcome. Meanwhile we have Obama's folks leaking to newspapers how they are going to let her have a "dignified exit".
Is it now safe to predict that Hillary is not going to be running as Obama's VP?
well.
Is it possible that the momentum re: super-delegates is closer than we think and that he needed to come up with some sense of a "win."
The only rational factor would have to be super-delegate related. But the math doesn't make sense. Why not allow all 100% of both Florida and Michigan? I think its the Florida part that makes him look particularly petty. Not being on the ballot is a bigger issue in Michigan is a bigger issue than merely not campaigning in Florida.
He must be nervous about the superdelegates---or he's just tired and his judgment is impaired.
I think Obama is such a wimp that the power brokers may twist his arm into accepting Hillary.
Frankly, Hillary probably has the votes to force herself on Obama. Delegates committed to Obama are not necessarily committed to his VP choice. If Hillary can peel off enough Obama Delegates and/or super-delegates, Hillary could veto his VP choice and put herself in that spot.
That would be awesome except for one thing---I think it would be a more electable ticket. I would love to see her try and fail--because that would blow the party to pieces.
She wants to be able to claim the popular vote lead and use that plus her wins in all the big states to try to swing some super-delegates. Obama seems absolutely paranoid about it. Since he had that long winning streak he's been getting trounced, though you'd never think of it that way from the MSM coverage.
I read an article earlier today about how an Obama strategist was a genius at playing the delegate game. He picked and chose where to focus so that they could keep the delegate losses minimal in states he lost and pile them up in states he won. They can't seem to get out of that mode, and so here they are fighting for every possible delegate in MI and FL.
Why do you say he seemed more petty about FL? If you use exit polling of MI uncommitteds, the people who voted were something like 55% Clinton, 30% Obama, 10% Edwards, 5% other. She almost beat him 2-1 and he wanted a 50-50 split as "the only fair way"? GMAB!
supporters stayed home. All those college students in Ann Arbor and Lansing would have shown up for Obama had he been on the ballot. The level of screw up if Michigan so far surpasses Florida that the Michigan delegates should be grateful that their delegates are not classified as JV delegates who votes won't count, but are instead compensated with a free happy meal from McDonalds. The Michigan democratic party is an embarassment. There is not one strong leader among them. Not one.
Exit polling is crap. Exit polling had John Kerry as President. As a resul, Dems don't trust exist polling.
I am surprised Obama didn't yield to an 80% compromise to he could look generous. Maybe that congressional loss has him permanent spooked.
I hope Hillary sues the democratic party and fully discredits the use of litigation in elections. That is my dream.
1789: Some of us are 3/5 of a person
2008: Some of us are 1/2 of a person
"When Loons attack their own"
"Night of the Living Dead"
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !