Major McCain endorsement in CA tomorrow (or, "Debate Open Thread #2")
By Jeff Emanuel Posted in 2008 | Arnold Schwarzenegger | California | girly men | McCain — Comments (123) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The word on the street is that it will be the man who recently called the L.A. Times to apologize for being a Republican, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger.
That ranks up with the NYT endorsement, and if it's accepted wholeheartedly and touted in CA or nationwide, then I'm seriously going to just give up on this cycle and hibernate until 2012.
Oh, by the way, this is the Debate Open Thread #2. Take it away.
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Major McCain endorsement in CA tomorrow (or, "Debate Open Thread #2") 123 Comments (0 topical, 123 editorial, 0 hidden) Post a comment »
this diary is a straw man. It is like saying, I just bought some ice cream, and if I eat it, the world will end. Of course McCain will accept the endorsement and so would huck, mitt, and even paul. I think they all want to win the most populous state in America.
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Molon Labe!
NYT endorsement, inability to say he will veto amnesty, Arnold's endorsement. These are just the hot buttons of the last few days. McCain's rhetoric walks a line of plausible deniability. Once he is in office he will do what McCain wants to do, and that is push his Global Warming and Amnesty agendas, while trying to tow the line on the War which will become increasingly difficult give the fact the GOP will likely lose seats in Congress.
I agree on amnesty and global warming. McCain says he wants to build the wall first, but I realize you will not believe him. I do not agree we will lose many seats if McCain wins, but if some get there way and Hillary wins, you are right, we will lose a ton of seats.
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Molon Labe!
It certainly can happen, however I'll believe it when I see it! It's just simply time to do it.
You can't blame him for endorsements, but you can blame him for working for or accepting them. He is the only GOP candidate who interviewed with the NYT editorial board. It has been widely reported that McCain has lobbied/pandered for RiNO enemy #1's endorsement.
It could be said that Romney is equally guilty by accepting Tancredo's endorsement.
...GOP only, and dear GOD is the CA GOP sick of Schwarzenegger -- and for good reason.
I heard McCain say today that (paraphrasing) 'it's not over, the Democrats have some strong arguments and...' You're correct, McCain is moving left. When was the last time you heard a Dem candidate say anything positive about a Repub. campaign?
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
The "everybody else is doing it" argument is weak. Just because Democrats are petty and unwilling to acknowledge when a Republican idea is valid or well-argued doesn't mean that we must (or even should) do the same.
There are arguments to be made for certain Democrat positions - some of them quite good. It doesn't make them right, it doesn't mean I am convinced, but it doesn't make them less valid. And recognizing them as strong arguments is the only way to combat them - if you discount an argument you never bother to mount a valid response to it.
the supposed Republicans continue to make excuses for McCains statements or behavior in the past.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
No one said it was pretty and most politicians require a bit of spin to even begin.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
that our forefathers wanted ordinary working people to run rather that professional politicians... It WILL be our downfall...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
First Rambo, now the last action hero...
I think chuck norris is in trouble.
But to tell you the truth, I don't think rank-and-file Republican primary voters (those not as engaged as the activists) have too much hatred in their hearts for the governor, liberal as he may be. For them, the Terminator endorsed McCain, and That's Cool.
At least if McCain wins the primary, Schwarzenegger will stick with our side and not the Dems or Bloomberg. I'd hate to hear the media bray that "REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR OF BIGGEST STATE ENDORSES DEMOCRAT FOR PRESIDENT~!!!"
No one of good character leaves behind a wasted life - John McCain
Watching McCain tonight, I'm even more confident that he will end up getting blown out in the fall. He looks old and sickly, he's cranky and he doesn't answer the questions...so much for straight (lol) talk.
And, honestly, I think the guy who had the most potential to really inspire people was Huckabee. But he is just too liberal on economic issues. Even though i don't agree with him on a number of issues, I don't have the visceral hatred for him that I do with McCain. In fact, I actually like the guy despite his Edwards-style populism.
the terminator would have been all for Mitt but now that he has been neutered by Maria , Mac is all he dare stretch for. What a shame he turned to girlyman himself.
"girly men"
just endorsed McCain! How will McCain recover? Oh, yeah, by winning California next week and picking up a ton of delegates.
in trouble :)
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Molon Labe!
This is whats wrong with so called members of this party.
Why would anyone attack a Republican elected official?
When he comes out and apologizes for being a Republican and continually supports liberal proposals, I think it it is pretty much fair game. Personally, I could care less that he or anyone else has an R after their name...what I care about is conservative principles and values.
Arnold is a liberal...there is no getting around it. So do you believe we should just keep our mouths shut just b/c he is "a republican elected official"??????
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
... when they stop being Republicans, or when they attack the party they get attacked back.
Why would anyone attack a Republican elected official? Because he's not a conservative!
Tim Schieferecke
Are you serious. I don't know who your candidate is (was) but everyone would've taken his endorsement.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
CNN also said McCain was picking up pair of Georgia Senator Nods? Anyone else hear about Georgia Senators Endorsing McCain?
McCain could still wrap that one up.
Sure McCain, you can have my #$&&^%#@$ vote if you want it.
Fred Thompson's Principles
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
The debate tonight has me scratching my head once again as to how these two have out lasted Thompson and Giuliani. Makes me wonder wether or not if we'd even nominate a good solid candidate if they would run. Obviously aren't doing that this year. It's depressing.
Bush, Bush, Dole, Bush, Bush, McCain. Yeah, there some wins in there but what the hell did we win. Fred is gone before Florida? Preposterous.
What the hell is going on out here? - Vince Lombardi
for George Allen. if you rethink your littany, you will realize we had two incumbent presidents there, would you have preferred they lose a primary? All this talk about changing the nominating process is the lowest form of sour grapes. I have an idea, get better candidates!
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Molon Labe!
I understand some of those names were incumbents. I know the rule, incumbents stand for reelection. Period. I admit to the sour grapes but look at those names. That murderer's row has been bad for our party.
What the hell is going on out here? - Vince Lombardi
to lead our party for some time. Why do they not run? Why does the base not support them? There is so much institutional bias out there that it is a huge challenge. We have not had a decent Goldwater/Reagan conservative run and win in a long time. Our chance was Allen, but he was crushed early by those who knew what they were doing.
As I have said before, none of the present candidates would make my top ten if I got to pick. But one thing I do know is if the Demos win this election, we will lose a tremendous amount of ground. I know some seem to think a loss would not be that bad, they are simply wrong. The assumption that the country will be ok for 8 years under Hillary, and then all of a sudden, the country will turn conservative is just that, an assumption, and not a very smart one.
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Molon Labe!
I think the span of time you just mentioned runs directly with the ascension of the Christian Right. I think they started the compassionate conservatism meme that now wants Big Government Conservatism. This is why Huckabee draws support.
The process isn't the problem. South Carolina is supposed to be a conservative state that stops the insurgents. At this point it has bought the compassionate conservatism that allows McCain and Huckabee to lead the state.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
The establishment is letting this one go. We have far better leaders in the party that are sitting this one out strategically. After the last 8 years and the fallout in the 2006 elections the GOP has decided to let the Dems jack it up for a while. Winning after 8 years of a highly disliked president is very hard to do. Bush 41 was able to pull it off but Reagan was loved not hated.
These people aren't going anywhere. Big Government Conservatism has owned the debate within the party for some time.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
It's time for someone who has fought Big Government to lead the Republicans. Can't be Huck (Bush Jr.); can't be Romney (Big Government Health Care). So it's Paul or McCain. Paul is too crazy even for me.
McCain voted against Bush's Prescription Drug Entitlement. He voted against the Transportation Pork Bill and the Energy Pork Bill. He even called one of them "pork" on the Senate floor. Not even Coburn has that record (voted for both).
It's time for a Small Government leader.
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Donate to the Rs in Close Senate Races through Slatecard
It's time for a Small Government leader.?????
McCain is for amnesty for illegals,health care for all, a pawn for ALGORE and his global warming scare, yep , that's small government at it's best.
Like Ben Kenobi once said , who's the bigger fool , the fool , or the fool that follows him?.
kAs shown by your moniker...does that ever make sense?
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
"conservatives". The reason the party is so down is not McCain, it is Frist and Bush. A party only gets depressed to this level when they win, and find the win was not that great. Now look at us, we attack everyone who leads this race. When it was Rudy, the chattering class here trashed him. When it was Huck, same thing. Now it is McCain, and some say they miss Rudy lol, well where the heck were you guys when it mattered?
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Molon Labe!
It isn't the process or the media that is to blame this time. The party has lost its way. We have lost the conservative credentials so much that Thompson is looked at as outdated while Huckabee is seen as the conservative of the race.
It is a problem of a gradual slide into embracing Big Government that has in large part been enabled by the idea that the Government should grow to support Social values. The government should stay out of my home and wallet and you can't pick one or the other. Either you shrink government entirely or you expand it.
This party lost its way not all at once this election, but rather we've been slowly sliding towards this moment for a while.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
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Molon Labe!
My comment was to his Libertarian moniker, making comments about Conservatives. You probably belong in the same group. You are right about Bush and Frist though. We (Conservatives) bought into the false statements by both and have been burned. I did vote for Bush twice and have not regretted it since the alternative was worse.
I have been very disappointed in the Bush presidency (actually, not abnormal since I've been disappointed almost every time by Republicans) but held my nose and did my duty.
I guess the bottom line is that since both Duncan Hunter and Fred Thompson are out of the race, I just don't give a damn anymore. It seems that the Republican party is determined to move to the left and join with the Democrats anyway. Maybe a mild form of Socialism is going to happen regardless of the minority voters. After all, how hard is it to get the votes if you keep giving money to them.
That said, I have little hope for the survival of our Democracy - just buy the people you want to buy (as long as they are in the majority) and you will win (and our border problem solves that problem). Maybe I'm just too old to care anymore...
Conservatives are a growing minority (thanks to open borders philosophy) and will not determine the future direction of the country. The Republicans think that they can stop this train by opening the borders, granting amnesty, etc... It will not work that way... In the end, we all lose...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
open about my stances. I support McCain now because we have little to pick from. My support could change, but I don't say Mitt as some great alternative.
You said this: "That said, I have little hope for the survival of our Democracy - just buy the people you want to buy (as long as they are in the majority) and you will win (and our border problem solves that problem). Maybe I'm just too old to care anymore..."
If you want to translate this I would be interested. Anyway, cheer up, it is not that bad. If people spend more time making their own way, and dealing more with their loved ones, rather than despairing about what our government is doing, or not doing, then this election, and our future, will not be that bad.
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Molon Labe!
Our grand semi-socialist government spends billions on (what I call pork) bills that pass money to their constituents. It not only ensures election, but also insures that future citizens also vote for this wonderful politician. The end result, as you might assume, is that the one that passes on the most money wins the election. Continue this for a several years (generations) and you might begin to see the consequences.
Combine that with opening the borders and you expand the problem. More poor, more constituency, more money, etc... Seems to me that both parties are rushing to get these benefits (typical politician), not exactly in the best interests of the US.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Maybe a mild form of Socialism is going to happen
I realize that it is already happening...is that your point?
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
If it weren't for those nasty conservatives, we would win all...heh.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
too many on our side are so myopically focused on 'winning' that they tossed aside any long-term considerations and jumped on whatever horse they thought could beat Hillary.
Were polls this far out accurate, we would have had a 2nd Pres. Carter term, and Presidents Dukakis, Gore, & Kerry. It has been sad to watch.
"All that need be done for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Tom McClintock, of all people, is leaning towards supporting Ron Paul, of all candidates.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/01/with-fred-thomp.html
causes such dismay. Actually, Ron Paul have about 60% good ideas...but unfortunately, his remaining ideas belong with the people of Jupiter.
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Seems to me that besides the war, most find him pretty spot on regarding the issues. What else do you disagree on?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
at least Huckabee is of this planet... You may not agree with him, but I doubt that you would require a tin hat to understand him...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
Which is good for a pastor, but this is a government of this life not the next one. He is way out of this world.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
I only differ on foreign policy really. I agree with Huck on about 50%.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
How a Republican could ever vote for a populist is beyond me. The fellow is just not a Republican. He is more of a heretic on Republican ideology than Paul on foreign policy. At least Paul can link himself to past Republican foreign policy stances (even if they are outdated).
Huckabee's economic heresy is Democratic and always has been.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
being a populist is not a sin... Can't believe I'm standing up for Ron Paul, but comments can be so silly... Just why would it matter if you considered him a Populist or a Republican? None that I can understand. Now I would agree that his foreign policy is absurd, but some of his other ideas are just fine.
His being a Populist has no bearing on this...
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
All day long I've been feeling sick to my stomach because of the worry that I may have spoke too soon about vowing to not support McCain (vote for him) and possibly contribute financially to an effort to stop him in the general.
After tonights debate and his disgraceful lying and pettiness I am officially anti-McCain to the end. What a petty, little, smug, deceitful, unethical, man.
He looked very smug to me as well and I would take him over Willard. But it was not a great performance.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
hold serve. But Romney took him on of course, and these guys do not like each other. In fact, none of the candidates like Romney at all. That is not a shot at Romney, but it is a fact.
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Molon Labe!
If he thought Romney was a real threat he would've done the "I'm above the fray" thing, but he took a victory lap out there today and it wasn't pretty. He acted like a jerk.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
when I visualize him in a debate against Clinton (God forbid it be Obama). The Republican Establishment--although I think they would like to win--has decided McCain will preserve more senate and congressional seats in the face of a Democratic presidential win. I am afraid, particularly if we get one of McCain's tantrums televised wall to wall, they chose poorly, to quote Rumsfeld.
Your analysis of tonight was dead on.
As the most likely nominee now (I think it is all over but the crying), he should be working to bring in his opponents and/or at least their supporters.
I'm not a Romney guy, but that performance would make me hate McCain if I were a Romney supporter. I think McCain is choosing to avenge perceived and real slights by the conservatives that have always opposed him.
It might feel good for him in the short term, but he will regret it later. Never burn bridges unless you have to do so.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
I also think McCain is likely to win. Nonetheless, there is one way McCain could lose, and only one way--if he does himself in. I'm afraid that will happen after the convention. I don't know McCain's motive in going on the attack while he is ahead, but it isn't rational.
It is possible that Romney could play the inside straight to win but highly unlikely. I mean at this point on pure possibility it is possible Paul or Huckabee could win, but the probability is mighty low. Romney doesn't have much of a leg to stand on either.
Being a pragmatist, I will support McCain because I have no other choice. My state votes on Feb. 5 and I'll vote McCain with more than a tinge of regret.
But the way he acted tonight and in a couple of post-victory debates has shown me he is still that destructive and at times arrogant McCain that spit in the face of the party in 2000 (and I supported him in that primary). There is something to be said for being concillatory and respectful to opponents.
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I am a Positivist Pastafarian for the alliteration alone.
we get to blog about how bad the Dems are for four years. You need the rain in order to enjoy the sunshine sometimes.
Please don't hijack this thread into more bitter, angry ranting from the bitter right.
Sure McCain, you can have my #$&&^%#@$ vote if you want it.
Fred Thompson's Principles
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Anyone think CNN will follow the Democratic debate with 45 minutes of coverage about the Republican race - this is ridiculous.
It's called "promotion". It's one of the 4 "Ps" of marketing. I know this has been a tough couple of days for you DR, but this is a bit silly.
that's partly true but CNN just loves their libs. I mean the debate was pretty exciting and it didn't take them long to switch to talking about Dems.
compare tonight to their regular coverage. There is an obvious bias, are you denying that?
Of course they're doing it for marketing too but I don't think you can deny that they lean, if not fall over, to the left.
I do watch one in a while and I've watched all the debates broadcast on CNN. I'm not denying (or admitting) that they may lean left. I'm just saying that in this case the profit motive far outweighs any bias.
Tomorrow night is going to be VERY interesting. And it could very well decide who gets the nomination. One-on-one...the way a debate should be without extraneous people clogging up airtime.
FWIW Romney dominated on the dial testing overall and especially during the "timetable" lie exchange.
In my opinion they were biased to Romney and Huckabee, neutral to Ron Paul, and disliked McCain. Before McCain would even begin to answer the dials would dive and I rarely saw them go above 60%. The opposite is true for Romney and to a lesser degree Huckabee. Just my two cents, and I have supported Romney from the beginning.
Did they show these live somewhere? I'm talking about the small highlights of these they showed about 40 minutes after the debate.
That superimposed the dials over the debate video. Very awesome stuff for a junkie like myself.
David Ribeirao, Conservative Paul, docj, dbecraft, Nick Haynes, Erick, and mbecker.
Go figure.
...in the general election. It's one thing to defend the mission and the surge, but 100 f***** years?!?!? C'mon. Do you think this country will elect a candidate that advocates a 100 year occupation?
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
Take what McCain did to Romney in Florida and then imagine the Clinton's doing it to McCain with that line. There will be nothing left but a grease spot where McCain's candidacy once stood.
He needs to change the delivery of that message. I agree with him in principle but the way he frames it is a big loser.
he hasn't stated how many troops we'll keep there
he can easily point out that while we have been in korea for 60 years, our troop level is not high
McCain is also set to receive the endorsements of Georgia's two Republican senators, Johnny Isakson and Saxby Chambliss, in the next two days, according to two GOP sources involved in the planning.
Nice coup for McCain helps him gain traction in Georgia now too!
I know he's been a life-long democrat, but a few nice words from him about Romney would help negate those endorsements.
Just dreaming.
Zell is four years older than McCain so you know that would be a problem.
I feel sorry for people so foolish as to believe and vote for McCain because current polls show him with a lead against Hillary or Barack. These polls are designed to lead idiots to vote for McCain so that the NY Times and Democrats can wipe the floor with McCain like they wiped the floor with Bob Dole in the past.
Once McCain gets the nomination, the newspaper will come up with the Keating 5, Torture Bill, a bunch of other lies that will leave McCain crying in the corner wondering why the party deserted him.
Fernando Caballero
Here's a Latino that will never vote for McCain... Stop dealing in stereotypes and discuss real issues.
I swear, this Hot Stove should have come with a copy of "On Death and Dying" so we could brush up on the five stages of grief.
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http://www.vcao.net
Now that the race is down to 2 maybe 2 and half men, people are going to be forced to take a closer look at them.
Judging from tonight's debate, McCain won't stand up well to this kind of scrutiny. It's a long shot, but McCain's petty attacks could make Romney into an underdog that people will empathize with. People do love an underdog.
I repeat that this is a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong shot.
This could be breaking news!
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
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Molon Labe!
He refused to even state that it might have been a questionable use of words. He completely, full-speed ahead tried to ram the notion down our throats that Mitt supported withdrawal. It's clear he realizes that he will probably win the nomination.
So, with that in mind, let me help the McCain campaign by proposing a new sign to use to sway conservatives. One which seems to be his uplifting attitude that he uses as he gives us 'straight-talk'.
Royalties can be made payable to Nick Haynes, Columbia, MO.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.
you can expect him to poke his fingers in the eyes of party conservatives every chance he gets. The history is there.
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Molon Labe!
Or are you hoping for a miracle turn-a-round?
Formally known as Deagle... "Golf is a way of life..."
But when he lied about Romney's position, it gave me pause and caused me to look back on what McCain truly has meant to conservatives, and the way in which he has comported himself under the guise of straight talk all these years.
Quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of it. I'm sick and tired of McCain running for the moderates, and simply assuming that the conservatives will vote for him in the end to keep Hillary out of office. It's arrogant. It's disdainful. And it undercuts mine, as well as many conservatives, intelligence by assuming that we'll all follow suit like robots simply because the other side is worse.
And, as I just heard a CNN talking head sum it up on how McCain can win conservatives (and to be fair, the talking head was saying if he takes this tact, he'll have problems): "I've been with you 90% of the time. Who are you to question me?" That seems to me to be a fair assessment of his attitude, IMHO.
Vote for the ulti-Mitt conservative. Romney '08!
DISCLAIMER: I am loosly affiliated as a volunteer for the Mitt Romney campaign. All viewpoints expressed are my own, not the campaign's.
I thought McCain was testy. But He will probably not be stopped. Its true that if he does get the nomination, the same media that is propping him up will destroy him. I will laugh.
McCain is supposed to be the "strait talker" but everyone examining the comments by Romney about timetables can clearly see that he was talking about there being benchmarks for progress with the Iraqi government so that we could leave in victory. And that those benchmarks should not be out in the open so the enemy would know what to look for in determining if the US was on the verge of leaving. Who would disagree? Well, McCain I guess.
For McCain to sit there and continue to misrepresent what Romney said shows that he is anything but the "strait talker" he claims to be. He looked absolutely foolish! When it comes down to who I would most like to see in the general election, the choice is easy. Romney has all the qualities of the chief executive we need in the White House. I would
McCain is only moving more and more to the left as the primary draws to a close.