NH Debate Open Thread
By Mark I Posted in 2008 | debates | New Hampshire | Primary | Republicans — Comments (259) / Email this page » / Leave a comment »
The Republicans have been going at it for the past hour in New Hampshire on ABC. How's your guy doing? Discuss it here.
UPDATE: And it's over.
Quick reactions: Romney took a big hit. He looked desperate and flailing. McCain was a little subdued and fell to the temptation to kick Romney while he was down.
If only Fred Thompson had as much energy as he has gravitas. He needed to be a bit more aggressive.
Giuliani was characteristically solid. Huckabee managed to get through it without really saying much of anything. And then there was Paul.
My guess is that McCain and Giuliani go up, Romney and Huckabee go down, and Thompson stays the same.
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I was starting to wonder if this debate seems anticlimactic to many of us after the fun we had Tuesday night.
Fred has sounded good but he almost has too many funny 'gotcha' lines. Mitt's attempt at sound-biting his insurance program was pretty painful to listen to and he is shoveling hard--questionable whether he's digging himself into a deeper hole or hitting paydirt, probably the former. McCain sounds confident and in his element. Huckabee is fading into the background, but as others have noted this isn't his stage.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Mitt is getting pounded on all sides. I can't say I expected that.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
and get trough first grade....UofA here we come.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Romney's clearly the target tonight, but he's holding his own.
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First State Politics
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
How about this Hillary-loving question: Why not Obama?
In other words: please bash Obama to help Billary.
nailed Obama. all the others did well too, but Rudy had the best answer.
his argument (that Obama has no executive experience) applied to half the people on stage, too.
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First State Politics
which makes it all the smoother (attack the bad guys and get a subtle dig in at your rivals on the good side all in one), and the better from his perspective. like I said, a really, really good answer.
Obama has no experience and that's what drives his support. Emphasizing his experience, or lack of, will only contribute percentage points to him in the election.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
"I agree Gov. Romney, you are the candidate of change"
and I'm a Romney guy.
McCain had several zingers for Romney, but he's coming across as petty
Very little moderating, a lot of back and forth... this is what a debate should be.
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Romney you are change... this guy is an idiot... nothing in issue, just personal
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
Aren't these the same guys who complained about Romney's ads. Seems like double standards. Although, Romney never made a personal attack, he made comparisions.
A debate game, counting the number of times Romney whines about being picked on in this debate...
The count is now One.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
That's up to about 24 times from Romney alone. He's rather predictable that way, for better or for worse.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
...because his policy positions are so terrible and in such opposition to fundamental conservative principles.
Must have included no negitive attacks shall be made on film, but are permited to be done live clause on it.
Romney 08
...so every candidate - except Fred - has a big incentive to tear him down. McCain has gotten personal on him a few times.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
...is also a major obstacle of John McCain and Fred Thompson. Neither one of them has ever run anything.
his way in this thing a little more.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Its a little hard when you are ignored. But when he has spoken, he has hit home runs (for the most part).
...with his "candidate of change" quip.
too bad nobody else thought it was funny
his views are much closer to Obama than any other Republican
He sometimes gets a good point out, before he goes off of the deep end. Like national id cards.
Thank you ABC. This is the beat debate we've had the whole season.
...than any debate since the Brit Hume/Chris Wallace hosted debate on FNC. It was too early to eliminate candidates at that point, though.
Tomorrow's FNC debate (it is tomorrow, right?) should prove to be as good as this one.
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
He's bought the Kool-aid. We knew that already.
I'm so glad Giuliani is coming right out and saying Nuclear first, also natural gas.
"We haven't licensed a nuclear power plant in 30 years."
Score a big one for Rudy.
Excellent ending. Romney nails it on that point.
Geez you must love high electric rates.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
And the U.S. has *very* large natural gas reserves. I guess McCain would like us to build windmills instead.
in town halls around NH. Here is a clip I took while riding on the bus:
I don't recall seeing many candidate discuss nuclear energy, but it came up at several townhalls. The video below is a bit bumpy but it does capture McCain's full response to a question about energy independence and nuclear power.
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like what is coming out of Johnny Mac's mouth? by that, of course, I mean carbon dioxide
I want to say that we should all be proud.
All of our candidates are talking about and debating IDEAS. You may not like all of them but these are genuine ideas. This as opposed to the Democrats who all just say "I will give you more and I hate Bush more than s/he does."
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
That was just open ended frustration to everybody talking about what a problem global warming is.
Freedom and religion endure together, or perish alone. --Mitt Romney
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !
"they control the price and dictate policy" - Huck has no idea how oil markets work.
Also, John McCain takes a page out of Al Gore's book on global warming - no thanks.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
McCain is showing his well deserved reputation for a vicious and petty temper. Thompson, needs to be more assertive with his policy positions. Paul, sounds like an angry man who thinks that if he talks louder more people will listen. Romney is very defensive and on a couple occassions seemed rattled. Not a good night. Huckabee looks like a second tier candidate with nothing to offer other than the same worn out quips. Gulianni looks like he doesnt want to be their and doesnt have the energy to engage. Much to his displeasure there arn't enough questions whereby he can invoke 9/11. In a push Thompson won by a nose.
and your analysis is about what I would expect from a one-day wonder.
that's what you get for thinking...
He was definitely the most mature candidate on stage and the most secure in his answers. Or maybe he just looked good next to John McCain.
Romney was more defensive than I would have liked. He needs to learn to take McCain's personal low-blows with more grace and learn to return fire with ease.
he tends to slouch, a habit a lot of very tall people get into, because they become self-conscious because they are so tall. At 6'5" he should tower over everyone else -- and that works to his advantage.
I would NOT turn my back on Hillary without a vest and secret service
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just like we used to do in our church. That's nice. Kind of like that Warner Brothers cartoon where Wile E. Coyote and the guard dog greet each other when they clock in for work.
er, that's Ralph Wolf. You can tell by the red nose and the non- upper-crusty genius voice.
called the other, "Sam," IIRC. I guess the cartoon characters themselves were actors portraying other personae.
It was interesting to see who was standing by who at the end of the debate. Rudy, Huckabee, and McCain where standing together. Romney and Thompson were talking to each other. Can we read anything into that?
I hope those two guys will get together and run together.
Yea, who else would Romney stand next to, Thompson is the only person he hasn't run attack ads on.
I was waiting for the big hoochey coochie myself....
looked like they were drooling over each other.
then again, so did hillary and McCain.
but he's just not very dynamic. Romney was taking it from all sides, but I thought he defended himself alright.
Huckabee sucked. I hated McCain's line on global warming, and he sounded angry and petty at times. Giuliani did fine, but I thought he kinda got lost in the shuffle.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
I think you are right. Also McCain on Immigration was loser.
plainly said he also considered when oil companies had losses and dismissed windfall profit taxes.
Though it would pain me quite a bit, if Fred can't win the nomination, perhaps a McCain/Thompson ticket. I would prefer McCain as a Sec of Def. though.
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and its my opinion and i respect that others have theirs, I think if this were not a popularity contest but a contest to determine the best person to be President it would clearly be Fred Thompson. he appears head and shoulders above the others. in fact, if this were a job interview for a CEO to run the company called the USA Fred Thompson would be the choice.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
-- John Adams
How about getting candidates from both sides together at an afterparty, let them get a little drunk and then let us hear what they all really think.
Romney doesn't drink, and I don't think Huckabee does either, but not 100% sure.
with mood-altering foods like pizza or turkey sandwiches. Something.
Is it me or did Fred look like he thought the Dems were diseased?
Fight On!
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Thompson was the perfect statesmen. I agree with most of the above. McCain finally showed his true self that I have seen personally.
Romney is a stuffed suit and Rudy looked tired.
Huck puts out plattitudes and offered no solution.
HWSNBN - Still a nut job.
Fred Wins.
Max
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
I don't know what debate you were watching. Fred didn't win, but he did well. Romney was the obvious winner.
Romney was BUSTED on the "mandate" comment.
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
...then McCain's global warming comments busted him - at least in the minds of conservatives.
“.....women and minorities hardest hit”
He won in the sense that there isn't anyone on that stage who could have survived the gang up as well as he did. He's tough. I like him more than I have in a long time after that.
Well if you think this is a "gngn up" that obviously you have never seen the WH Press Corps at the finest.
This was a cake walk. Sorry, Fred get's it, hand's down.
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
Sorry - Meant "Gang"
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
In a better world, Fred would be the frontrunner and Romney would be his VP, or the other way around. They're the two best people we have to choose from.
Well if he didn't change positions so freakin much and take democratic talking points then they wouldn't have been able to gang up on him. ("Change"--hey mitt let hillary, obama, and edwards take that...we want to beat them not be them). Mitt has been my #2 for a while now, but after tonight, I just don't know if I could vote for him. I disagree with rudy on social issues...I can deal with mccain b/c I trust him on national security (other than the border fence)...but huck and mitt just make me sick. Huck only talks in cliches and mitt is just a slick politician. I about fell out of my chair when they asked him to talk about his "principles"--he never did answer the question b/c he doesn't have any other than tell people what they want to hear and what my advisors believe will work.
But Mitt's vision of change is radically different than the Democrats. Do you want the Dubya status quo on everything, or do you want more conservative, free market capitalist change?
That Mitt will know how to speak in terms that will win independents in the general election vs. a Democratic opponant should be a plus, not a negative.
Mitt's comparison to Democrats begins and ends with the term "change."
Most gave decent answers on principles except Rudy. He listed goals, not principles. Huck gave a great answer on principles by reciting the principles our country was founded on. I'm not pulling for the guy. I'm a Hunter-Thompson man myself. But don't say he didn't give a good answer (although I think Thompson gave the deeper more meaningful answer) without mentioning how Rudy never answered it.
I'd give the highest marks to Fred. He was full of substance and commanding.
Romney was attacked personally and responded with substance and honor. I like him even more.
Rudy did very well, though he was made to struggle for relevance.
John is still a heroic patriot but was damaged by his pettiness. Tonight hurt him.
Huck's rhetoric seemed more vapid than it ever has in this forum. Tonight hurt him.
Paul got creamed by everybody. I found that most satisfying. Ha!
And I reply to you kowalski in order to offer you my high regards.
So in that sense, it was a good night for Romney. He reminded voters that he is good on the issues that McCain is atrocious on and that New Hampshire voters care most about - the economy and immigration - and solid on all the rest of the issues.
He also has experience actually running large and complex organizations and running them well. John McCain has never run anything.
This debate coupled with the Romney advertising campaign may well slay McCain in New Hampshire.
George Steph.... just said Fred had an excellent night. I agree, Fred won.
I just screamed in my living room....
(and I hate Snuffleugppagas)
Go Fred...
YEA!!!!!
Max
Max Power and Mark Smann
The Laughing Elephant
http://thelaughingelephant.blogspot.com
that whatever the MSM says about the debate may actually be more important than the debate itself. If they want to say Fred won, I'll take it. Go Snuffleluffapants.
Considering that most people in the country didn't see it, you are very likely right.
The "Third Worst Person in the World" and aiming higher.
By the way, the "billion dollars" for a 100 mpg car was the dumbest thing I heard all night. Huck is all flash, no substance.
guess what, there are already cars that can do 100 mpg. They just don't have any protection against accidents and can't carry anything.
There are already electric vehicles, too. Plus, who gives the billion dollars? Our taxes of course. Huckabee doesn't think before he speaks. He's polished because he's been preaching since age 12 but he is none too bright.
"Any Republican But the Huckster 2008"
Not exactly true...at least according to this article:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah.html
I'm pretty sure we can do 100 mpg now, just have to ignore crash safety, passenger capacity, style, current tooling etc.
Seriously, I remember the little electric cars that were sold in the mid-1970's. They were light and cheap to operate but in addition to limited range, you really didn't want to take one onto a fast road.
It's one of Newt's ideas, in principle. Huck's just picking up whatever he can on the fly.
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First State Politics
when Fred then says, "That would be subject to the excess profits tax".
-tS
"When men fear work or fear righteous war, when women fear motherhood, they tremble on the brink of doom; and well it is that they should vanish from the earth." - Teddy Roosevelt
If you remember they recently offered a similar incentive for someone to build an aircraft that would take off, enter space and return. It was achieved fairly quickly. I will say the 100 mpg part wasn't that bright.
There is already a prize offered along these lines, although the amount is quite a bit lower than 1 billion...
Plenty of teams already signed up. I'm not particularly persuaded by Global Warming type arguments for this, but for oil independence and foreign policy reasons (as well as the fact that the exploration new technologies like this is darned cool) I'm pretty interested to see what will happen with it.
I think it's provately funded.
"For oil independence and foreign policy reasons (as well as the fact that the exploration new technologies like this is darned cool) I'm pretty interested to see what will happen with it."
Me too, how about the salt-water discovery? Besides looking so simple and cheap, it would be flat awesome.
Theres not one major car maker.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
...is probably not enough to attract any major automakers.
This doesn't really surprise me, since car companies want to sell cars, and innovation of this kind is really only in their insterest if it serves that end. A motiviating prize is probably more attractive to folks interested in innovation for its own sake.
I though Romney looked intelligent and well informed. He also showed his philosophical grasp of the issues, especially in responding to Paul.
McCain looked good but the cheap shots undermined him, big time.
Rudy and Huckabee looked one dimensional.
Thompson was great buy not very outspoken.
I think Romney just locked this thing up.
Paul, well, he has his moments.
"Go ahead, make your jokes, Mr. Jokey... Joke-maker. But let me hit you with some knowledge. Quit now". -White Goodman
now the real fun begins. Time to turn back to football...
“Anyone that wants the presidency so much that he'll spend two years organizing and campaigning for it is not to be trusted with the office.” – David Broder
Lets see a Horror show or a move about pleisiosaurus.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
-Thomas Paine: The American Crisis, No. 4, 1777
that's exactly what we started watching after the debate
Guns don't kill people, abortions kill people.
Debate performance review.
Romney. Winner. Got hit by all sides and came out on top.
Fred. Did great when he had a chance.
Rudy. Did well, but immigration was a stumble.
McCain. Lost big time
Huckabee, was terrible.
The other guy. Just plain crazy.
had about going to McCain if he were to beat FDT are gone. I am not a Mitt guy but McCain was rude. Never allowing the man to finish a line and complaining how Mitt was always picking on him. John Mc can't stand to be roughed up and cry when it happens.
"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
John Paul Jones (letter to M. Le Ray de Chaumont,16 Nov.1778)
Anyone got Audio or Video feed links?
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Proud member of the Barry Goldwater wing of the party !