Redstate

There you go again. You've caught moderator attention before and then got quiet when your fraud was exposed.

But you're back again. So let's probe your political affiliation some more. When you say you've never voted straight ticket, did you vote for Republicans and Democrats, or Democrats and Stalinists?

Come now. Be honest about who you are. Right now we have no reason to believe anything you post isn't written up in Rahm Emanuel's war room. So let's have an account of what your biases are.

Because as of now you're adding no value to the site with your bad attitude and dumb comments, and so I'm wondering if I should suggest you be banned.

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...wowzers, I feel special. Anyone interested is welcome to read the entire thread you linked. I said nothing out of line.

Oh, and your 'does a straight ticket mean Democrats and Stalinists' gave me such a guffaw! Oh, you rake, you! Suffice it to say that, over the years, my votes have gone to candidates of both parties at the Presidential, Senatorial, Congressional and State levels alike. Is that sufficiently clear?

Moving on to the matter at hand, who cares where someone spends July 4th? Why is that a point of attack? The implication is clear--that he's less than a patriot--but such is ridiculous. This ranks right up there with the guy who asked me why I don't fly a flag from my home. One doesn't prove patriotism by showing up at a parade, flying a flag or wearing a t-shirt.

We do have a problem with nationalism supplanting patriotism in many minds. Patriotism simply means that we love our country; that, in turn, means that we also acknowledge our warts and mistakes. Sure, we have far fewer warts/mistakes than most other nations--that's why we've lasted 232 years, right?--but they do exist. Nationalism, on the other hand, is the rah-rah we'll-kick-the-world's-ass stuff that invites the participant to ignore the man behind the curtain and deny the warts and mistakes.

In short, patriotism requires thoughtful consideration while nationalism denies the same. We should be striving for the former and working against the latter. It doesn't serve patriotism to play "where were you on July 4th" games. When we start adding stuff like this to some presumptive checklist about what "good Americans" do, we're heading down a very dangerous nationalistic road.

and yeah this is coming from the biggiest Patriot/Nationalist you will find....and where were you on the 4th? and yes there is a checklist...did you not get it when you joined the VRWC?

You not WE have a problem with nationalism supplanting patriotism because I for one see the two as one....this NATION is the best in the world and to support it one MUST be PATRIOTIC....and the loser down in FL who couldn't even spend his off time with the people who pay his salary at a parade or cook out is indicitive of a person who believes he cannot lose his job.....I believe the fine people of FL will show him he is wrong....and than he can spend all of his free time any where his little heart desires.

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

...and, no offense intended, anyone can fly a flag or slap a magnet on their car. Loving one's country isn't measured by what we wear or display, but rather by what we do.

Just as wearing a cross doesn't "make" one Christian, flying a flag doesn't "make" one a good American. Making either one of those some sort of checklist item actually renders them LESS than what they should be - it only waters them down, don't you see?

If you see nationalism and patriotism as one and the same, read your history. I would suggest that many, many tyrannies have risen from nationalism. For a democracy, nationalism is a true danger.

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

patriotism", he shows up here to tell us rubes how dumb we are. That's how he shows how proud he is to be an American--because, yes, yes, he can.

...I served honorably in the US Army.
...I've contributed to Army Emergency Relief.
...I've helped Habitat for Humanity build houses.
...I've worked in my local schools as a tutor, guest speaker, whatever they need.
...I've volunteered at a VA Hospital (before I ever served in my own right).

Good enough? I could list more, but the point is that I shouldn't have to prove my love of country to anyone. I don't use the "veteran" license plates, even though I'm entitled to them. Patriotism isn't something you brag about, and it isn't something you have to display for validation - it's something you just do.

That's why this kind of "gotcha" stuff is, as I see it, just wrong. I'm sure that there are plenty of issues on which you can legitimately criticize the "other guy," so go right ahead; that's what political debate/dissent are all about. This kind of picayune, "ooh, you didn't do THIS thing that all REAL patriots do" nonsense does nothing but take us further from the issues and deeper into the pit.

displayed...by displaying your patriotism you open up a conversation with a young person and you pass on your love of country to the next generation....the flying of the flag is one such notion...to volunteer is another but to get the next generation to volunteer with you is even more important...to go quietly about your patriotism is to be ashamed of it....wear it loud and proud so the next person will feel compelled to do the same....you don't have to have a bunch of stickers on your car...you just have to show your love of country in very small but distinct ways....believe me it does make a difference and it does engage young people....and they are who will protect and love this country next.

Freedom of Religion NOT Freedom from Religion

And, being offended that ones elected congressional representative decided to spend Independence Day in Canada, does not "make" one a nationalist.

Patriotism is what it is and always has been. The left can try to redefine it to match their political views, but it is what it has always been... an unqualified love of this country and ALL of its imperfections.

The methods traditionally used to communicate one’s patriotism, are of course, the subject of ridicule on the left. As are most American traditions like “clinging to God, and guns, and……

Those who control energy, control society.

I don't ridicule anyone who chooses to fly a flag, wear a t-shirt, or anything else. Nothing I've said has criticized those people - and I won't criticize them.

What I WILL criticize is the reverse - criticizing someone for NOT doing something from some nebulous "checklist" of what "good people" or "real patriots" do. Think about it; if your elected officials, GOP or Democratic, spent the 4th with their families, are you going to call them up and criticize them?

There's a big difference between the two. You'll notice I didn't say one word about the criticism of the flyer that had a picture of the Soviet soldier, nor have I criticized any of the other stories on the front page. This one, however, went somewhere that I don't think we should go.

Who's "We," Wes?

Your mobying gets tiresome.

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...on both sides of the partisan divide. Yes, I've called down folks on the left side of the aisle, too, when they cross the line into the "Bushitler," and "Bush lied" nonsense. I won't lie to you--I'm no fan of the current Administration--but, as I pointed out in another comment, I could have had a much easier time taking issue with some of the other comments on today's front page. This one just went a bit too far.

"We" are the people who would really like to see a discussion based on issues instead of amorphous, nebulous attacks and strawmen arguments. "We" are the people who are sick and tired of manufactured stories and invented outrage, smear campaigns (whether it's "Obama is Muslim" in 2008 or "McCain fathered an illegitimate black child" in 2000) and everything else that puts politics above country.

Truth be told, I suspect that there are more of "us" than you may suspect.

I don't think we (as in Republicans) are all that wise to take political advice from someone who has no interest in whether we win or lose.

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So, then, how you win doesn't matter?

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All you've done this weekend is pick fights with your borderline-disingenuous posting.

This site isn't for smarmy, self-important Independents to come and pick a fight on our whole front page, as you claim you could do.

Nor is it here for you to come and cast aspersions at us all wiht comments like the one you just made above.

So.... blam.

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I didn't accuse you of ridiculing patriotism.

However, when you continually diminish the traditional demonstrations of patriotism as "being from some nebulous checklist", you accomplish the same goal.

It's something the left and America haters will never understand. Just as they can't distinguish between someone who served an abbreviated tour of duty in Vietnam and then submitted his own request for awards like John Kerry and someone who served for a long and distinguished career in the Navy and who refused to leave his fellow soldiers behind in a North Vietnamese prison.

There's a difference between having served a tour in the military and being a soldier. Just as there is a difference between being a resident of the United States and being an American patriot.

We get it instinctively. We don't need to have words like "Duty, Honor, Country" parsed and explained to us. We understand the meaning of "Protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic…"

Ahhh, it's a waste of band width...

Those who control energy, control society

You wrote, "However, when you continually diminish the traditional demonstrations of patriotism as "being from some nebulous checklist", you accomplish the same goal."

As I had just written, I won't do anything to criticize or (to use your word) diminish those demonstrations. However, that isn't what this story described. This story criticized the ABSENCE of something, thus turning the action in question into some sort of checklist entry.

It's the difference between:
"My town was gorgeous on July 4th, with so many people flying flags"
and:
"I noticed that Joe DIDN'T fly a flag. Hmmmm...."
I'd say the first, but never the second. Get the difference?

Consider the end result. If everyone is compelled to do "something" just because they're criticized for NOT doing it, then that "something" has been diminished, yes? I was chewed out by a vendor for not purchasing one of those "support the troops" magnets, because EVERYONE should have one of those. That person had no way of knowing that I'd donated money to the family association of my former unit, which was deployed at the time; in their eyes, I was BAD because I didn't meet their checklist. See the difference - and the danger?

It described the conscious decision of a Democratic lawmaker to leave the country on Independence Day. You think its fine, good for you. You certainly have the right to your opinion.

Do I not have the right to feel that his actions were somewhat disrespectful? Is that, gulp, nationalistic? Is that dangerous? Are the storm troopers going to show up when his plane lands? Woooooo

Those who control energy, control society.

I just don't see why it matters one way or the other. Ah, well, thanks for hearing me out. (grin)

You know what? It doesn't matter. What he did on Independence Day will not impact the welfare of this country one bit. But, I get my back up when true Patriotism as defined by Webster’s, is questioned or denigrated.

While you did not, the left, as a whole, does it a lot. America is not to blame for all the problems in the world and I'm tired of the "Blame America First" crowd. I don't enjoy having people look down their long noses at me because I defend my country in every way possible.

So I took it out on you. Thanks. :)

Those who control energy, control society.

...the spiritual scratching post. (laugh)

I often get the same treatment from the left when I criticize something in their world. See you around...

If he had spent time with his family, but their second home was in Montana, you'd be fine with it? Just checking...

Those who control energy, control society.

When we got sucker punched by al Qaida, I thought first of my family's safety, then I woke up passionately with a heart pounding jealous love for this truly blessed land of ours. Being wrapped up in the day to day of raising a young family, I hadn't really appreciated how truly blessed each of us is to live here, but that all changed that day. I have immersed myself in American history and learning about the Constitution. You are dead wrong about nationalism. Without it, we are screwed. Because our kids don't learn how unique this land is, nationalism is a commodity we are in short supply of now. The fact that Obama and his mindless change are even being seriously considered by many is evidence of that.
Tim Schieferecke

...because I think we might be talking past each other. These aren't interchangeable terms.

(definitions courtesy of Merriam-Webster)

Patriotism: love for or devotion to one's country

Nationalism: loyalty and devotion to a nation; especially: a sense of national consciousness exalting one nation above all others and placing primary emphasis on promotion of its culture and interests as opposed to those of other nations or supranational groups.

As I see it, a patriot can love their country and be devoted to it without taking the nationalist stance that we're automatically right all the time, that we shouldn't criticize our government, or that everything we do is automatically correct, or that everyone/everything else in the world is automatically lesser/wrong.

Are you claiming that this is what you find here at Redstate?

"As I see it, a patriot can love their country and be devoted to it without taking the nationalist stance that we're automatically right all the time, that we shouldn't criticize our government, or that everything we do is automatically correct, or that everyone/everything else in the world is automatically lesser/wrong."

Just asking?

Those who control energy, control society.

...and I apologize if I've given that impression.

I just thought that this particular story--blasting someone for spending the 4th with their family instead of being out in public--because of its implication that elected officials and/or "good people" should have been out at a public function or parade, blurred the line toward nationalism.

I will say, however, that lines like "liberals just don't love America" blur the patriotism/nationalism line even further. That belief does have a fairly large following at RedState, just as the "conservatives only care about money and power" line has its following over on the left side of the aisle. I think it's a problem for both sides, and it's one reason that I'm a centrist/Independent.

The title of my previous comment was:

"The vast majority of the time, not at all"

I'm not slamming RedState-as-a-whole at all--that would be like picking one magazine/newspaper and blasting "the media"--but, rather, taking issue with one story.

are easily identified. They are willing to sacrifice their lives, if necessary, in order to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

***

“Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so.” – Ronald Reagan

I still remember a quote from Thomas Paine that adorned a wall at FT Leonard Wood:

"These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."

...the ones you posted on the Give Them That Old Time Religous Bigotry threads.

(You don't need to respond here as I don't want to start a threadjack here. I'd have sent you a message instead if you were accepting them.)

And Rightly So!

I'll go read/respond now. I'll also set up for accepting messages; I didn't realize I was refusing them. Sorry...

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RS Endorsed Tom Rooney for the seat.

For future refernece: If you click the tags on an article you can see earlier articles with those tags. So if you click FL-16 you see all our posts on Florida's 16th CD, including the pro-Rooney stuff.

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That opponent would be Tom Rooney, and he is endorsed by RedState. He has raised some money through Slatecard. You can visit his website here.
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4.62, 0.51

Joe Negron is respected in Florida. The problem was that Foley's name was still on the ballot. Even so Negron almost won it. Rooney looks to be taking full advantage of Mahoney's stupidity.

"If they were merely incompetent, then at least SOME of their actions would have been to the benefit of the country."