Redstate

If you have something to say, say it. Or don't. But quit playing passive aggressive troll games.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

I would like to submit a theory:

The Republicans lost in 2006 and look to lose more seats in the House and Senate for reasons related to their behavior while in office.

Moreover, many of the arguments for why the Republicans would be better than the Democrats have less persuasive power given that we observed their behavior while in office.

I honestly feel that a discussion as to what the bad behaviors is absolutely essential to winning future majorities.

You see it as trollish behavior. I'm looking at the situation and honestly assessing it.

One thing that I'd like to point out: Peggy Noonan (PEGGY FREAKIN' NOONAN!!!!) is being called a bad-faith actor in another thread. You can see it over there on the right.

I would like to posit that the refusal to honestly discuss problems that exist and calling those who want to discuss it "trolls" presents, at least to this Libertarian, as "denial". (In the alcoholic sense of the word.)

Seriously, dude. They're calling Peggy Noonan a bad-faith actor.

Do you not see a problem here?

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

If you have a point to make, make it. Don't just go from thread to thread trying to have the same discussion over and over, throwing off cheap one liners and disrupting everything.

Just write a diary. That's what that feature is for.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

Peggy Noonan did a better job of explaining it than I could do in any diary:

What happens to the Republicans in 2008 will likely be dictated by what didn't happen in 2005, and '06, and '07. The moment when the party could have broken, on principle, with the administration – over the thinking behind and the carrying out of the war, over immigration, spending and the size of government – has passed. What two years ago would have been honorable and wise will now look craven. They're stuck.

Mr. Bush has squandered the hard-built paternity of 40 years. But so has the party, and so have its leaders. If they had pushed away for serious reasons, they could have separated the party's fortunes from the president's. This would have left a painfully broken party, but they wouldn't be left with a ruined "brand," as they all say, speaking the language of marketing. And they speak that language because they are marketers, not thinkers. Not serious about policy. Not serious about ideas. And not serious about leadership, only followership.

What the GOP in Congress did not have, was a spokesperson for an independent Republican voice separate from the Executive Branch. Not necessarily adversarial, but independent.

To the average American voter who is not a political junkie, the congressional GOP has been nearly invisible. (John McCain was perhaps the only exception, but he wasn't in a position of Senate leadership.)

The public face of the GOP has been the Bush Administration. And right now, that's not a popular face.

frankly, I am confident that a blog by you on the subject would be a positive contribution (see 51% - smile). But really, do it.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

It's cool.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

I don't think that's a troll. I think it's a legitimate question. What the hell happened? If the GOP wants to climb out of this hole, it would sure be helpful for the GOP to take a long hard look at itself. Democrats can easily name countless missteps and transgressions on the part of Republicans, but it doesn't help Republicans if they can't acknowlege where they've made mistakes. And laying it all at the feet of these few adulterers and pedophiles mentioned downthread isn't going to cut it. Something has gone wrong in the policy area. Is it the war? The economy? Have prominent right-wing activists pressed their luck? If the GOP doesn't carefully examine their conduct over the past few years, they're doomed to repeat these mistakes.

...cheap cigar, beat-up car, nice guitar.....

If you want to start a discussion, you don't get to keep popping up in a bunch of threads asking it over and over. You write a diary.

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"If we want to take this party back, and I think we can someday, let’s get to work." – Barry Goldwater

"...cast the first stone?"

Fossella cheated on his wife...true. But he took care of his responsibilities and supported his daughter even though it would have been MUCH easier to ditch her/pressure an abortion/deny she existed, etc. He's a flawed human being, as are we all, but he's not a bad man.

Vitter also had problems, but again, he confessed his sins to his wife, and hurt nobody else. Again, a flawed man, but hardly worth scorning.

Craig...is a deeply confused man, I'm guessing, but again, I personally don't even think what he supposedly did should be illegal.

Foley...nope, you've got that one right. Can't really justify what he did. He's just a creep. I hope God forgives him, but he's got no place in any respectable party.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

After everyone left, Jesus told the woman to GO AND SIN NO MORE!!!!!!

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

Right. Is Fossila still sinning? Is Vitter? Is Craig?

And even if they were, it was JESUS telling her that, the only person who actually COULD have stoned her because he didn't have any sin, not some random sanctimonious a$$hole with a God complex.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

Whenever someone mentions that story in a debate about homosexuality, someone always posts what I posted verbatim.

If there's a bandwagon, I jump on it.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

only sinless people could carry out lawful sentences. He was saying that those particular men could not, probably because they were her customers.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

We're *all* sinners and hypocrites. Every last one of us.

Let's not conflate stoning and judging, which we are commanded not to do, with exercising our political prerogatives. Our vote gives us, not just the right, but the duty of making judgments in the political sphere.

If those beliefs make me a "random sanctimonious a$$hole with a God complex," well, then I guess I'll wear that badge proudly.

Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible. - Frank Zappa

every time someone brings up the woman caught in adultery they always forget the Jesus' closing words --- or the punchline --GO AND SIN NO MORE!!!

They must think the story ends with Jesus saying -- there you go babe -- have at it -- sin all you want --everyone does -- if it feels good do it -- who are you hurting -- you are consenting adults.

AS IF -- they have a sad day coming. tsk, tsk.

M Penny

Are any of these men still sinning?

And even if they were, your sanctimony is sickening.

Jesus reserved his special rage against those who declared themselves to be less sinful then the other guy. Remember that.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

The GOP cannot hold itself up to a high moral plane on issues like marriage and the family, and then end up doing something like what Fossella did or what Foley did. These men kept their actions secret, because they knew how the public would react if they were found out.

Don't expect the voters to forgive that.

Either the GOP should lower its moral standards to a more realistic level (and stop trying to claim they're bigger defenders of marriage and the family than the Democrats), or else they have to start by cleaning their own house.

Personally, I would prefer the former. I don't think it's the job of a politician to lecture America on morality. I didn't like it when Jimmy Carter did it. And I have no moral problem with someone who is honestly, openly, sincerely gay and is otherwise a decent person. Look at Tammy Bruce, who is supposed to be on "our side."

But if there are any more skeletons in the GOP's closet like Cunningham or Foley, and those get "outed" by zealous Democrats this October just weeks before the election, that will likely spell doom for the GOP once and for all this year. If there are any more such skeletons, we had better find them out now, not in October.

...that even if she should sin again, she still doesn't deserve stoning.

I don't know how this fits in with whatever discussion y'all are having. Nor do I care. Our current political climate has so many logs in its eye that not forgiving adulterers seems speckish in comparison.

(-2.75, -4.92)

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

...and Jesus hasn't condemned her. God has, apparently, given her time to both sin and repent again (true in everyone's case). Your comment isn't a rebuttal of mine.

(-2.75, -4.92)

she did not "deserve" stoning?

The Bible teaches that that woman and Gamecock deserve death due to sin. Adultery is a sin. God says this. Jesus is God.

So let's not conflate the word deserve into the narrative because it is not relevant.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

...ok, so everyone deserves stoning - due to original sin - but Jesus says don't stone people unless you're without sin. None of us are. So we're disqualified. But since HE is without sin and didn't stone the woman, apparently that's off limits too, if we are to emulate the sinless Christ.

But I think the point is really God's forgiveness. Not fate's preemptive punishment. Right?

too. Good mo jo

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

She did not deserve stoning.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

http://www.tyny.com/christmasstory.html

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

of the death penalty for adultery!

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

The point is that we ALL deserve stoning, but that we aren't going to get it if we don't want to because Christ was punished in our stead.

"I will look for people in the cast of John Roberts, Samuel Alito, and my friend the late William Rehnquist – jurists of the highest caliber who know their own minds, and know the law, and know the difference." - John McCain

My man, you do *NOT* deserve the death penalty.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" Rom 3:23
"...For the wages of sin is death..." Rom 6:23

Everyone is guilty...EVERYONE. And that means we all deserve the death penalty.

And I'll leave the rest for the TheologyState.com

This subthread is probably officially outside of the scope of the website.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

1And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest,

2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

If I am making fun of someone who quotes Paul and says "God said this!", I am not mocking God.

I am making fun of someone who quotes Paul and says "God said this!"

As flattering as it was to be compared to Satan, it's a little assuming to compare oneself to God.

I wasn't mocking God, dude. I was pointing out that Paul and God are two separate entities.

And, once again, we're probably outside of the scope of the diary, if not the website.

But I do hope that 3.0 has a (perhaps hidden?) sub-section where those inclined to do so can get in there and start throwing down on certain topics that get shut down by the mods in 2.0.

Man is free at the moment he wishes to be. --Voltaire

I doubt 3.0 will include software that protects avians for flying into logical windows.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

those guys were her customers

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

I see the current political environment as a storm of epic proportions. There are lots of conservatives that aren't sure what to do. They have firmly held values, but see the real possibility of a massive defeat in the Fall. They know the consequences of a complete transfer of power to the Liberal Democrats, and fear it like a tornado heading straight for their mobile homes. I am in this group, and Peggy voiced what we are thinking.

There are many on this blog who are perpetually optimistic, and see Obama going down in flames. I hope they are right, but I don't know which way this thing will go.

The Democrats have the luxury of being able to point out every failure in leadership, every moral scandal, every wart on every Republican and tell the country "see, they are all crooked, corrupt, and hypocrites...". There is not much that can be said in defense of much of what they say. A lot of it is true. The mystery to me is why so many Americans dismiss the Democrat’s failings, scandals, corruption, and hypocrisy. It's like they have some kind of 'super power' that allows them to place the blame for their failures on the Republicans and make it stick. It seems to work for them most of the time. When a Republican gets into a scandal, it makes us look like hypocrites. Maybe the fact that most elected Democrats don't seem to have principles is the source of their ‘super power’. We really need to try our best to elect good folks that won't get caught up in scandal.

I sincerely hope that all is not lost this Fall. If we do fail to keep the presidency and loose more seats in the House and Senate (a real bummer!), I have no doubt that the problems that we face right now are going to be far worse 2 years from now. Democrats have the ability to make any problem drastically worse with their 'solutions'. We have to do the best we can with what we have right now, but we'd better start looking hard to find the best leaders we can for future elections. We may be able to survive a couple of years of Democrat rule (hopefully that won't happen), but an extended period of time may doom the US.

John Wayne

more already.

gc in mourning

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson

Most of us thought McCain was done for after last summer's terrible decision to support non-amnesty amnesty. Just look how lively he is now.

Democrats: Abandoning Allies, One Country at a Time.

that he was schooled by conservatives last summer.

We are his boss.

Mike DeVine’s Charlotte Observer columns
http://thehinzsightreport.com
www.theminorityreportblog.com
www.race42008.com
"One man with courage makes a majority." - Andrew Jackson